Arelith

Following Team Discussion:

- Number of property modifiers (i.e. to apply runes) removed from the following: Disciple's Garb (1), Disciple's Wraps (2), Aspirant's Sash (1), Aspect Beads (2)

- Note: Legacy items from above will be removed in a future update. This is a warning to allow you time to obtain other options.

Okay, in the eternal words of Michael Scott, "Why don’t you explain this to me like I am an eight-year old. [...] Why don’t you explain this to me like I’m five."

Most monk items only required a lesser or a greater rune. Now they require a greater or masterwork.

So, if I have two of these items in my shop for sale right now, can I get them replaced by a DM or do they just go poof?

None of the actual items changed at all. Just the scripts to apply the runes.

But the announcement says they will be removed so as they are older items he's asking for them to be exchanged for the new ones.
Or is there some confusion about the whole removing the older items?

Basically if you have runed monk gear you lose whatever rune you had applied.

Lesser rune for Necklace --> Greater rune for Necklace
Lesser rune for Belt --> Greater rune for Belt
Greater rune for Chest --> Masterwork rune for Chest
Masterwork rune for Gloves --> Get F'ed I guess?

Did I get that right?

Also, Where do I sign up for a refund?

Briggs wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:33 am Basically if you have runed monk gear you lose whatever rune you had applied.

.

.

Did I get that right?

No. You dont lose any properties on existing items. Now they will be harder to rune. Worth mentioning that this isnt a nerf to the Monk's accessible endgame numbers because you arent realistically gonna 5% RNG items or disciple garb/wrap so its just that the same properties you will have any way are now harder to get. Disciple wraps are already impossible to rune a second time if you used to first runic property for 1d4 damage. You can still rune Fort which has no property weight and then masterwork 1d4 damage.

Yeah, it all makes sense and it doesnt nerf end-game potential.

I just hope Legacy items wont be removed entirely from characters. That would be crazy.

- Number of property modifiers (i.e. to apply runes) removed from the following: Disciple's Garb (1), Disciple's Wraps (2), Aspirant's Sash (1), Aspect Beads (2)

If I understand it right, this ->>
Armor Bonus: +3 (AC Armor Modifier)
Enchantment Bonus: Wisdom +2
Discipline +4
Runic
Only Usable By: Monk
Increased UMD Requirement: 45

Turned into this ->>
Armor Bonus: +3 (AC Armor Modifier)
Enchantment Bonus: Wisdom +2
Discipline +4
Only Usable By: Monk
Increased UMD Requirement: 45

Right?

- Note: Legacy items from above will be removed in a future update. This is a warning to allow you time to obtain other options.

That means sometime soon monk PCs might find themselfs naked in the hub, missing four pieces of gear , unless they hurry to regear?

P.C

Yeah, it all makes sense and it doesnt nerf end-game potential.

Out of simple curiosity, how it doesn't ? :p

dallion43 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:36 am

- Number of property modifiers (i.e. to apply runes) removed from the following: Disciple's Garb (1), Disciple's Wraps (2), Aspirant's Sash (1), Aspect Beads (2)

If I understand it right, this ->>
Armor Bonus: +3 (AC Armor Modifier)
Enchantment Bonus: Wisdom +2
Discipline +4
Runic
Only Usable By: Monk
Increased UMD Requirement: 45

Turned into this ->>
Armor Bonus: +3 (AC Armor Modifier)
Enchantment Bonus: Wisdom +2
Discipline +4
Only Usable By: Monk
Increased UMD Requirement: 45

Right?

- Note: Legacy items from above will be removed in a future update. This is a warning to allow you time to obtain other options.

That means sometime soon monk PCs might find themselfs naked in the hub, missing four pieces of gear , unless they hurry to regear?

P.C

Yeah, it all makes sense and it doesnt nerf end-game potential.

Out of simple curiosity, how it doesn't ? :p

Right now, i think, the description from the update area is rather vague.
There's too many interpretation and speculations but no confirmation.

Of course, regardless of any changes ( even if it's removing a single stat ), it's not end of the world. It's still possible to adapt here and there. Though, the main concern now that i have, is the same as dallion43, is that i have no idea what's the actual changes are.
Until then, i've no idea what i am supposed to be replacing on. Yep, this is also because my main is a Monk class. I too, need to change my equipment once i receive the actual confirmation update.

Bless this change. Together with the HiPS nerf, makes for a great update. Very well done. These monk items were nuts.

As mentioned above, the only change is that has happened is that it takes larger runes to apply on these items.

Xerah wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:34 pm As mentioned above, the only change is that has happened is that it takes larger runes to apply on these items.

Why was this stated in the update notes, then?:

Note: Legacy items from above will be removed in a future update. This is a warning to allow you time to obtain other options.

If they only take larger rune-tiers now, most of the existing legacy items would be on par with the new version - only less expensive?

Some items won't be able to be runed after you enchant it once.

Nothing has currently changed with your items expect for applying runes.

Garvik wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:33 pm

Xerah wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:34 pm As mentioned above, the only change is that has happened is that it takes larger runes to apply on these items.

Why was this stated in the update notes, then?:

Note: Legacy items from above will be removed in a future update. This is a warning to allow you time to obtain other options.

If they only take larger rune-tiers now, most of the existing legacy items would be on par with the new version - only less expensive?

Essentially, certain items like Fine Elven Boots have an invisible item property that reduces (or in the case of adamantine, increases) the effective amount of rune-relevant properties.

Fine Elven Boots can be runed with a Lesser Rune because this hidden item property is "-2", thus reducing the amount of rune-relevant properties to 2.

Just like these boots, some of the loot-only and craftable Monk items (specifically the ones in the update thread) also had such invisible properties, making it possible to rune them after making use of their innate runic property.
That's where this update comes into play: It will in some instances prevent adding another extra stat via runes after enchanting those already powerful items :)

And, as "pre-update" versions of these items would persist and likely continue to negatively affect server balance even after this update took effect, I suppose the team has decided that they won't be grandfathered. Which either means they'll lose the additional properties you added via runes, or they'll disappear entirely.

Disappearing is a last resort and not exactly necessary.

Making them plot (so they can't be traded), making them unrepairable is also an option (but doesn't work for beads). Modifying them back to base stats if they've been runed plus a refund is another possibility. Most times items get changed with no warning but we wanted to be more upfront that it will happen.

Thank you for the explanations. A lot clearer now!

Oh, I always thought they needed normal tier runes. Guess nothing changes in my case.

If you're ever wondering what rune you need, there is an assayer's lens that art crafters can make that will tell you explicitly the type and the strength.

Thank you for the clarification, I appreciate it.

Kalopsia wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:47 pm pre-update" versions of these items would persist and likely continue to negatively affect server balance even after this update took effect

That, mathematically, not going to happen. All of these items can still reach the same properties, just with a larger investment of time/gold, as they require bigger rune. They can still reach the same properties, even with that in mind because:

1) The belt used to require a lesser rune. It will now require greater so even if you 5% (and 5%ing rng items is not even something you make building decisions on) it will still be rune-able with masterwork. Legacy items are not any stronger than the post-update in this case.

2) The gloves cannot be runed a second time if you applied 1d4 damage on the initial rune. This means that only very very few players who understood that they should first rune something smaller (such as +2 skill or 1 stat at best) and then they would be able to apply a masterwork rune for that 1d4 damage anyway. The number of people who did this is probably VERY small and they only come out ahead in 1 attribute point at best. Will it effect the server badly enough so you need to take away these items from ALL monks equally? I dont think so at all.

3) The outfit is pretty much same case as the belt. You're not realistically going to 5% it and you can now apply a masterwork rune a second time where as before it was simply a greater rune. So again, there wont be any power disparity between old and new items - just in how hard they are to obtain.

If the words "you're not going to" are used to justify a position, know that people did and have and will always push the boundary.

5% a chest item on a scale large enough to warrant a nerf? Hopefully my suggestion about chests will be implemented at some point :p.
Yes, I am aware tunic and glove are craftable. If someone managed to 5% them on a basis wider then a lucky shot, he must be something else.

Biolab00 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:04 am Yep, this is also because my main is a Monk class.

I highly recommend not to: play on the server with the same username as your forum username, stating your main class and especially mentioning your current main PC name. The prejudge is real.

Ork wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:28 am If the words "you're not going to" are used to justify a position, know that people did and have and will always push the boundary.

Yeah no. Making a discipline garb takes a lot of crafting points and expensive ingredients and cross-trade stuff. On top of that, it's runic so it's even more coin wasted of the first free-be enchantment. The struggle and TIME you need to go through to get that 5%ed is not worth attention.

The belt is quite common in rng so its slightly more 5%-able if you buy all the belts you can see in PC shops and look for them at the peddlers before resets, etc etc. Still, not very realistic to make balancing and building decisions based on someone 5%ing that sort of item. The difference in power, after going through the immense time consumption and struggle to make these items with that 1 extra property, is probably alright and deserving of that 1 stat.