Arelith

Hi,

The arcane archer has a bunch of abilities that are to be honest a bit useless.

Seeker Arrow - A single shot arrow that never misses, yet does base bow damage with no bonuses of any kind to it.

Hail of Arrow - Shoots everyone within range but again, just base bow damage with no bonuses of any kind.

These two abilities are practically useless and i find it hard to find a use for them in any situation. I was hoping they could perhaps be looked at and made a little better? Ive been playing a AA archer for a while now and it seems a shame they have these non useable abilities.

Thanks for reading.

I'm moving this to feedback as there isn't a clear suggestion here.

The problem is how to make them useful without making the class too overpowered

Buffing the AOE damage from imbue arrow to 10d6+AAlvl could be something interesting, specially given that it’s just a PVE opener anyway.
98 average damage for a build w/ 18 aa lvls on a 28d6 burst might be too much ? But the actual value is indeed irrelevant

The arrow of death’s DC could be better implemented, or the ability could be changed completely into something else.

One thing that would actually be cool is actually having them imbuing actual spells on arrows, perhaps that would incentivize actual arcane archers as per Pnp (CL would need to be considered tho) rather than just +AB archers

Anyway, i’m curious about how the community views this issue and thinks there’s anything to be done about it

The difficulty with further buffing AA is that they already have a terrifying niche that no one else can touch, and that's overwhelming AB combined with arrows that do an explosive variety of damage.

Further buffs to these abilities could get oppressive, which is sad, because they're SO GOOD at auto-attacking that they aren't allowed to have anything else be nearly as good.

I'd be in favor of buffs to all these abilities if they shut down Enchant Arrow for five rounds after using them, to create windows of weakness in exchange for cool effects.

I'd suggest making Arrow of Death useful by making one of the following changes:
-Instead of a ranged touch attack with a DC of 20 for instant death, make it a normal attack that has a crit range of 2-20.
-Make the DC scale but make it only work on lower level targets, ala Quivering Palm. AA Level plus Dex Modifier would max the DC out at 35 for a level 20 AA with +15 Dex mod, and it wouldn't steam-roll max level PVP. (Although this does encourage bullying so I'd much rather see the first option.)

Add Imbue Arrow options beyond fireball. Balgarn's Iron Horn and Fear would give them options vs low dex, low str, and low wis targets respectively.

I don't think that Hail of Arrows needs a buff because against target-rich environments it can be the equivalent of having 20 APR for a round which is nutzo.

Seeker Arrow could dispel invisibility/concealment effects on the target to open it up for more punishment.

Again, all of this would come at the cost of making their AB and damage temporarily less overwhelmingly oppressive.

Nevrus wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:52 pm I'd suggest making Arrow of Death useful by making one of the following changes:
-Instead of a ranged touch attack with a DC of 20 for instant death, make it a normal attack that has a crit range of 2-20.
-Make the DC scale but make it only work on lower level targets, ala Quivering Palm. AA Level plus Dex Modifier would max the DC out at 35 for a level 20 AA with +15 Dex mod, and it wouldn't steam-roll max level PVP. (Although this does encourage bullying so I'd much rather see the first option.)

Playing a heavy AA these days, and agree that Seeker Arrow and Hail of Arrows are completely useless.

I also would like to see the Arrow of Death have a DC that scales with AA level in some way. Given that this is once/day action, I'm optimistic it would not be too imbalancing.

Another idea that came to mind that would be a bit of a substitute for Arrow of Death is a variant of Imbue Arrow.

Imbue Arrow causes 10d6 damage (scaling with level) in a large area of effect.

What about a second version of Imbue Arrow that causes 20d6 damage (or more, again scaling with level) against a single target. This would be a substitute for arrow of death in that it could still kill opponents of low enough level, and still be useful against opponents of high level.

Math on 20d6:
Min: 20
Max: 120
Avg: 70

My character using a standard template with damask arrows and +4 / +4 / +1-6 damage from essences does 30-ish damage on most hits, and 90-ish on crits, so this is in the range of something like a guaranteed crit, so in fact could use a little more damage on top of that for a limited uses/day action.

Seeker Arrow - Change this to A 1APR Super Shot. Make it one that can't miss, Regular damage + Bonus damage but its 1 APR and on a CD.

Hail of Arrow - Maybe treat this like a ranged whirlwind attack with a CD?

Just make it true Strike on CD then

I'd like to see AA become available to most races, if not all, with the right aptitude before seeing extensive scripting on such a racially exclusive prestige class.

If we embraced 4E+ Firbolgs and a few other beyond-3E lore additions, I don't see why we can't also have AAs become available to all races like in the later editions.

So far, Arcane Archer feels like just an AB-boosting prestige class with a few gimmick abilities and is counterintuitive on what the class name suggests.

Kenji wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 3:00 am I'd like to see AA become available to most races, if not all, with the right aptitude before seeing extensive scripting on such a racially exclusive prestige class.

If we embraced 4E+ Firbolgs and a few other beyond-3E lore additions, I don't see why we can't also have AAs become available to all races like in the later editions.

So far, Arcane Archer feels like just an AB-boosting prestige class with a few gimmick abilities and is counterintuitive on what the class name suggests.

From the player side, at least in whatever bubbles I am in, the 'quantum physics firbolgs' (they are a fey or a giant, depending on what paradigm you view them through) are not embraced at all. That being said, I'd be fine if racial inclusiveness of the class were to be done alongside of a rework (I like how pathfinder does arcane archer). But i would'nt want to see it including all races with where the class is now. Niche thing for elves is fine, but definitely open it up if we invest on reworking the class.

I could see maybe opening it up with an RPR requirement and/or DM application plus the requirement of speaking fluent elven.

Hail perhaps could last a few rounds and have a slow effect on all targets? If it's raining arrows that might slow them down...

Arrow of Death, we don't need to give them an actual instant death effect that's reliable, but a few round paralysis on a reasonable failed save might be something.

Seeker arrow could have a knockdown or... What if you by typing -seek (name) you could fire an arrow in the air and if the target is outside and on the same server they get struck. Hey, it's arcane, they should have some magic arrow tricks. Bonus points if you can deliver a message this way (a note tied to the arrow.) It'd be a fun RP trick if nothing else.

Gouge Away wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:25 am Seeker arrow could have a knockdown or... What if you by typing -seek (name) you could fire an arrow in the air and if the target is outside and on the same server they get struck. Hey, it's arcane, they should have some magic arrow tricks. Bonus points if you can deliver a message this way (a note tied to the arrow.) It'd be a fun RP trick if nothing else.

I would love for -seek to deal 1d6 magic damage and deliver an illusion like esf. Exclusively used for letting your enemies know you're after them. Yes.

Gouge Away wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:25 am
Arrow of Death, we don't need to give them an actual instant death effect that's reliable, but a few round paralysis on a reasonable failed save might be something.

Arrow of Paralysis

I like that idea, could still make it a very useful ability, and more thematically similar to Arrow of Death than my suggestion of a single-target imbue.

Though maybe it needs to last fewer rounds than the paralysis from the Cave Slimes, because every time I am paralyzed by them it's a death sentence!

I really don't think that AA needs any buffs while archers are as strong as they currently are.

I agree they are strong, however they have some abilities which are not useable, they should either be removed or revamped in some way I reckon. They don't have to be powerful, just useful.

Its just really disheartening to do a hail of arrows and watch between 1-6 damage on everyone once within 30ft. Or watching the seeker arrow circle your one foe for a full round and then do the same.

I agree. We should change those abilities to be useful. Maybe reducing the AB from 1 every 2 levels to 1 every 4 levels & provide a meaningful buff to abilities.

I always found it strange that a class that is race restricted and that has this sort of secret craft theme is basically nothing more than a huge ab/damage boost and DR pen. It would be nice if it was more. toning down the absurd ab for more useful situational arrow skills with cooldowns et cetra would be absolutely amazing imo.

Dex spellsword with a bow backup weapon isn't bad. You can hit 7apr with haste, rapid, and 1 more apr from ss true strike. The SS ema ab helps with not having a weapon focus in missile so you can focus in melee and still use your imbues