Arelith

Not the most important thing either, but I find a bit odd that the summon creature VI for Underdark characters summons a hellhound instead of a more neutral creature.

To put it simply, not every Underdark character may be fond of a lawful creature from the Hells. I am thinking in particular about people who are very aligned with demons and chaos and also nature walkers from below. Sure, quite a few may tolerate the creatures, after all they are also tamed in the Abyss and they are originally from the plane of fire, but in general I think a more neutral creature would be better. What I mean is that some characters who are anti-lawful may tolerate this summon, but some certainly won't, and being shut down from the highest non-elemental summon is not exactly something I would call optimal.

I think the cavvekan, without changing model or anything, may be a good fit for a more neutral Underdark hound, and I have always wondered why the server does not reference cavvekans in any way.

Incidentally, the current hellhound summon has also a pure neutral alignment, whereas if it is to be consistent with the lore on hell hounds it should be lawful evil, obviously.

Another interesting option may be to extend some streams also for lower level summons. Not just for hell hounds but in general.

I'm not against your suggestion really but... the underdark is full of all sorts of creature which culturally shouldnt get along. When you summon a creature in there, you just get what you get and it can be a hell hound I suppose. I try to see it as the equivalent of a lawful good character on the surface summoning a creature and gets a..... disgusting and huge poisonous spider for example.

AstralUniverse wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:03 pm I'm not against your suggestion really but... the underdark is full of all sorts of creature which culturally shouldnt get along. When you summon a creature in there, you just get what you get and it can be a hell hound I suppose. I try to see it as the equivalent of a lawful good character on the surface summoning a creature and gets a..... disgusting and huge poisonous spider for example.

A huge, poisonous spider native to the Material Plane is not on the same level as a creature that is from an entirely different, alignment-dominated plane. No one will balk at a spider being summoned because it's not cloaked in the veil of alignment/planar character conflict that a hellhound is.

Inordinate wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:12 pm huge, poisonous spider native to the Material Plane is not on the same level as a creature that is from an entirely different, alignment-dominated plane. No one will balk at a spider being summoned because it's not cloaked in the veil of alignment/planar character conflict that a hellhound is.

If summons were native to the material plane dismissal and banishment would not work from a lore/dnd standpoint. I'd be a fan of both the surface and UD having the same summons, it would prevent folks from saying someone is from below/above if they have any summon out 6th tier or below. But the flavor of it all is really awesome currently.

mjones3 wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:58 amIf summons were native to the material plane dismissal and banishment would not work from a lore/dnd standpoint. I'd be a fan of both the surface and UD having the same summons, it would prevent folks from saying someone is from below/above if they have any summon out 6th tier or below. But the flavor of it all is really awesome currently.

Fair, but no one treats the 'animal' based summons as being that way for the most part. At least in my experience. Hell Hound is distinctly the only one that stands out from the rest, both surface and UD.

Yep, hell hound is inconsistent with the rest of the summons, that are normal material plane creatures either from above or below.

Worg may be in part comparable, as they have natural evil tendencies, but they are still creatures from the prime material plane, very common among some races, and without much of the implications that hell hounds carry.

It’d be cool if all summons were basically the same, set to various tiers of power, and you just had a number of opportunities to reskin them to different stuff.

That way there’s less focus on the mechanics, they’re all pretty good, and you can RP how you want.

That would be cool if summon stream books could reskin summon creature.

Dreams wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 3:48 pm It’d be cool if all summons were basically the same, set to various tiers of power, and you just had a number of opportunities to reskin them to different stuff.

That way there’s less focus on the mechanics, they’re all pretty good, and you can RP how you want.

hard agree

Lorewise, isn't find familiar just some magic? The familiar is shaped like a hell hound, but it isn't really that a hell hound was summoned?

Mattamue wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:46 am Lorewise, isn't find familiar just some magic? The familiar is shaped like a hell hound, but it isn't really that a hell hound was summoned?

I think that's the case in 5e, but also, they refer to the UD specific replacement for summon creature 4, not the familiar.