Arelith

As i know of there are no worg riders, spider mounts for Players in the Underdark only the Wywerns are used in some very limited way for travel. However anyone with a horse ability can summon a horse in the Underdark and ride over the caves as no locals could. I dont think horse riding in this enviroment could be possible or it would be very difficult, but in my limited knowledge about the subject i could be wrong.

Can this feature in the underdark look upon by DEV team, ban or better to just limit their usefullness there? (as movement speed decrease or any other negative effect in UD)

Or we should just encourage players to riding with care in the caves and undercliffs?

Thanks,

... Who rides a horse through a tight series of tunnels into the belly of the Earth?

I think I'd second that maybe making horses an undesirable requirement while several miles underground to be fair. If it's harder to cast magic, it ought to be harder to ride on terrain that is absolutely 100% not suited to hooves.

Horses in the UD is a little silly, unsuited terrain and horses are not known for their sturdy consitution or fearless attitudes.

However, lizards, lizards make great UD mounts!

Accuse the horse of being a paladin's mount for being fearless! Jking.

Z'har Thalack
With lizards the dream of a UD Cavalier would not longer be just that.

In the meantime, instead of limiting this and that, why not add horses to UD?
(maybe the evil model from shadow cordor - but with more hp pls, a pack horse is better, which is a shame since the Nightmare is so cool looking and being evil is 80% about aesthetics)
Maybe would encourage more UD characters to spend some points in ride, and would be a nice transition for when (if we ever, since we're talking about the dev making and implementing a new model) get the lizard.

At that point you can start talking about restricting horse travel - which I concur, is silly underground

niar3tir wrote: Wed Dec 09, 2020 3:23 pm Z'har Thalack
With lizards the dream of a UD Cavalier would not longer be just that.

In the meantime, instead of limiting this and that, why not add horses to UD?
(maybe the evil model from shadow cordor - but with more hp pls, a pack horse is better, which is a shame since the Nightmare is so cool looking and being evil is 80% about aesthetics)
Maybe would encourage more UD characters to spend some points in ride, and would be a nice transition for when (if we ever, since we're talking about the dev making and implementing a new model) get the lizard.

At that point you can start talking about restricting horse travel - which I concur, is silly underground

Nightmares are akin to pegasi. Though, would be cool to have them given to cavaliers once they find some sort of kinda breeder that enables access to them.

While horses are a bit strange, I also agree in just saying permit it for the time being till another mounted creature exists. I mean... we do have rothes down below.

I've gone through what feels like a ridiculous number of fully-featured mount haks, especially for UD like riding lizards. Most look really bad. And the few that look beautiful in stills, animate poorly. I've still not yet found one that I could say with confidence is up to an excellent standard of quality.

I'd certainly never get behind adding horses, even Nightmares, to the UD. If a really solid and well-tested riding lizard hak bubbles to the surface somewhere or we can create one, I'd be 100% for it. But unfortunately we're not there yet.

While horses in the UD may not fit in terms of RP, I do not think the arguments that the UD terrain is not suitable for horses are accurate. There are giants (some as players) and wyverns in the UD, so there is certainly head room for a horse to bear a rider. There are other creatures that have hooves (see Minotaur players and Rothe). Further, there is rocky terrain on the surface but I don't believe that horses are precluded from those locations. Perhaps the rocky terrain would result in slower movement, but not an impossibility. As for getting the horses there, we have characters who bounce all over the island via leylines and bring dominated creatures with them; not a stretch to say that horses could not travel the same way.

Again, other mounts fit the aesthetic better, but horses could be mounts in the UD.

Horses eat things that exclusively do not grow in the underdark, cannot see in the dark at all, get spooked by loud noises and have a tendency to break their legs in uneven terrain, and the caves of the underdark are anything but even. They are herd herbivores that are unable to utilize any of their defensive mechanisms in the confines of a cave and therefore completely helpless to the many predators that frequent the caves. About the only good point you have is about surface rocky terrain, which you realistically wouldn't want to bring a horse into IRL either without a steady path, but we either don't have the means or inclination to flag for that.

There might be an industrious merchant here and there with a show-horse, the occasional donkey or pony or more exotic ones like nightmares here and there in the underdark, but regular horses would be an abysmally poor animal to bring down there for anything but eating.

I can't believe I'm watching an debate unfold about whether horses could be sustained in caveland. I mean I 'can' believe it but I don't want to.

Nitro wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:04 pm Horses eat things that exclusively do not grow in the underdark

This assumes a RL horse versus a fantasy horse. Regardless, I suspect that a hungry horse would find a way to eat the foliage in the UD instead of starving.

[Horses] cannot see in the dark at all

Neither can humans and they are running around all over the UD. From an RP standpoint, no reason why you cannot cast ultravision on a horse. There may be a period of training for the horse to get used to seeing differently, but they are not stupid beasts.

[Horse] get spooked by loud noises

Horses are ridden into combat on the surface (see Cavalier). I am thinking the same type of horses could handle the UD noises

[Horses] have a tendency to break their legs in uneven terrain

This reason makes the most sense to me as to why horses would be limited in the UD (and is main reason why I personally have no problems with there not being horses in the UD).

Ultimately, it is not unreasonable to believe that a person with sufficient animal empathy could not bring some horses to the UD and breed them to acclimate to all of the issues discussed above, aside from perhaps the terrain issue. Given the absence of any mounts, the demand would likely be high and this would be a profitable endeavor.

However, I am not trying to argue that horses should be in the UD and I am happy to read that the staff is trying to find a way to have reasonable mounts in the UD that mechanically and also visually work. I just like to debate (and am intending absolutely no offense or belittling of ideas that conflict with mine).

In the meantime, we monsters will take our horses like we take our halflings: medium rare.

Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:10 pm I can't believe I'm watching an debate unfold about whether horses could be sustained in caveland. I mean I 'can' believe it but I don't want to.

I just enjoy debate. But I did not mean to bother so won't be responding any more on the thread.

It's all good, just amused is all- it's not a subject I thought I'd ever be reading about in Feedback in that much depth!

SkipiusEsq wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:22 pmHowever, I am not trying to argue that horses should be in the UD and I am happy to read that the staff is trying to find a way to have reasonable mounts in the UD that mechanically and also visually work. I just like to debate (and am intending absolutely no offense or belittling of ideas that conflict with mine).

In the meantime, we monsters will take our horses like we take our halflings: medium rare.

Hear hear on this. Please don't take my bewilderment here in anything other than good humor is all!

Batrachophrenoboocosmomachia wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:30 pm It's all good, just amused is all- it's not a subject I thought I'd ever be reading about in Feedback in that much depth!

SkipiusEsq wrote: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:22 pmHowever, I am not trying to argue that horses should be in the UD and I am happy to read that the staff is trying to find a way to have reasonable mounts in the UD that mechanically and also visually work. I just like to debate (and am intending absolutely no offense or belittling of ideas that conflict with mine).

In the meantime, we monsters will take our horses like we take our halflings: medium rare.

Hear hear on this. Please don't take my bewilderment here in anything other than good humor is all!

It is so taken. Thanks for the clarification.

Also, now all know I cannot be trusted (see prior agreement to not post anymore in this thread).