Arelith

Hi all,

It's no secret that whips are in a bad spot, and: enough is enough... These wonderful instruments of lashing should receive some love.

Whipans (latin-plural for whip) have only 1d2 base damage, x2 crits, and require Exotic Proficiency. Perhaps, if whips didn't require Exotic Proficiency, they would remain balanced (because they are objectively so, so awful), but we'd also end up seeing more glorious whipanmasters? Encouraging a new age for those that want to wield Battle-Rope™. The Variable Whip and the ones in the loot matrix sure would be more appealing if we didn't have to eviscerate (thanks, Invisible Blade) a pre-Epic feat to use them.

This is a feedback forum, I know, and this is a barely veiled suggestion (RIP Suggestion Box), but I hope you can have some sympathy for me, and this post, as I am championing such a worthy cause.

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts. And by that, I mean people agreeing with me. Thank you.

All the best,


Pala.

We need to whip the whip into shape.

The Variable Whip is the best weapon in the game right now.

Dreams wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 6:30 am The Variable Whip is the best weapon in the game right now.

I thought the "drow whip" was the illest most wicked weapon I've seen on the server so far. Seriously though since whips are now 1h edged they are at an even better spot than before.

Variable Whip. Not class or race restricted. Anyone with exotic proficiency can use it.

Attack Bonus: +4
Damage Bonus: Slashing 6 Damage
Unique Power: +2d6 (Random Elemental Damage) - You choose the damage that goes here. Before you choose the damage, you enchant keen onto it with a greater rune. Then you put +4 Permanent Essence of your choice, then you use the unique power and cycle through till you have the element you want.

Now it is:
+4 AB, Keen, +6 Slashing, +4 <Perm>, +2d6 Element.

And since you can 5% them, you can possibly get Keen on it, then 1d4 damage, then the perm, then use the unique ability to set your damage. So add another 1d4 to the end.

Whips are a twisted piece of rope or leather designed to cause serious pain without permanent damage. Like for taming livestock or punishing a prisoner. I think 1d2 seems appropriate for the mundane weapon itself.

Maybe something could be done in the spirit of the "disarm" feat on them though. Like if you have improved disarm you get a bonus when using a whip (make them count as a large weapon if you have the feats?)

I think just making it a martial weapon would not be right, though I don't like the exotic feat.

As previous poster said, the whip has historically had very particularistic uses. Perhaps it could be made a class based proficiency with certain classes getting access. Giving a few Proficiency:Whip would allow people to dip to gain access while still maintaining its flavor. This could include:

Assassin
Blackguard
Rogue
Ranger
Shaman
Druid
Barbarian
Cavalier

I mean, I can write a justification for all of these but I don't think you need it. It is basically everyone who gets animal empathy (though I really don't see a druid whipping animals), the shadier types, and Cavalier for rothe rustling potential. Just an idea though.

I dont know... turning whip to Martial prof seems dangerous. And since Variable Whip is really good, I think we're just good as is. drow and blackguard/assassin could get proficiency to whip if they have Simple Weapon prof, but otherwise I dont think we should touch anything.

I think whips in their current form are in a good place. They have weaker base stats and stronger magical bonuses.

So, friends, we're all in agreement, then? Whips must get some love.

Pala wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 3:02 pm So, friends, we're all in agreement, then? Whips must get some love.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe the default non magical/non epic tier whip shouldn't do as much damage as a sword or a greataxe. It's a freaking whip.

I really enjoy them on mages who don't have the ability scores or BaB to hit or do much damage anyway, I use them without even being proficient because it just oozes coolness. My tribal barbarian/shaman has a very intimidating look with his two tribals and his whip, he looks like a slave master.

Maybe whips should just be used by rogues who don't care as much about their weapon's base damage, or people looking to play a scary looking mage, or people who are willing to shell out for a reeeeeally powerful magical version of the weapon.

Someone already mostly mentioned it but a whip isn't even a weapon, it's a tool, and should probably not be put onto a tier where it becomes one.

Then again apparently a scythe is a weapon in NWN so there's plenty of room for silly things.

Whips should be a natural x5 weapon, change my mind

I had an assassin who used whips as his main melee weapon. Most whips are terrible. There are however, 2 whips (one loot whip and the variable whip) that are pretty good.

Yes, their base damage is low, so you really have to build around it to make it work. With the dex-based build I used, the whips weak points were offset by some factor
-Low base damage was mitigated by the heavy damage bonuses the variable whip can get, as well as high sneak/death attack rolls
-Low crit range didn't hurt much as dex-sneak builds don't benefit as much from crits as other builds

Rp wise, lower based damage makes sense, as its far easier to inflict a lethal wound with a simple knife than it is a whip. You -can- kill someone with a whip, but its either going to take far more effort or far more skill than, again, poking someone once with a knife.

The variable whip had some very powerful bonuses which could be changed at-will to target an enemies weak points (or just select an element they didn't resist), which was a huge bonus.

Whip disarm -is- garbage, however. Whips are considered small weapons, so you're going to be looking at some pretty harsh AB penalties when attempting to disarm anything larger than a shortsword or dagger. Yes, its a free disarm feat, but trying to disarm things with a whip will more often than not work against you, as disarm attempts provoke a free attack of oppertunity. And if you can consistantly disarm things with a whip....you're probably better off doing something else anyway.

Mechanically, though, there isn't a lot of variety with whips though; it goes from either "terrible" to "end game" with very little room in between. More variety might help some of the issues?

Also; possibly revamping the illithid whip. It requires parts from a powerful UD monster to make...a +1 whip with a 16 dc poison. This is an old, OLD recipe that might need some love. Like "back when masterly damask weapons were +3 AB and +1 enchantment" sort of old. Crafted gear recipes were not in a good spot back then.

I'd keep it as an exotic weapon, though. Because....well. Its a rarely used weapon that you'd have to go out of your way to learn how to use with any sort of effectiveness, both IG and OOC (you literally have to build around it to make it work).

Pala wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:25 am
Whipans (latin-plural for whip)
All the best,

I'm pretty sure the Latin plural for "whip" is "flagella".

Anyway, make it possible to dual wield them.

Dr. B wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 10:31 pm

Pala wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:25 am
Whipans (latin-plural for whip)
All the best,

I'm pretty sure the Latin plural for "whip" is "flagella".

Anyway, make it possible to dual wield them.

whip isnt latin and whipan isnt a word period

Now I do wish there was a bonus for using a whip if you took the feats to become a master of using such