Arelith

I think the addition of Drow Sign Language as a normal award option has trivialised it's existance as a secret language. It's usage is to communicate in situation with hostile elements present, so that they don't understand, but your people do. With a chance that it'd fail (25%, given the usual lore scores) A normal award is the minimum you can get for rolling a character (Unless you rolled at 16, in which case it's 25~35%). So you would always have this award available.

It's now a secret language that a really high amount of enemies and outsiders of your people know (Or not even your enemies) so what is the point of having it if it can't be relied on for what it's supposed to do? I think this change should be reversed, or the language deleted entirely. The current usage is as some kind of sign language IRL; not as a secret but as just a means to communicate without words.

As a consequence if you want to communicate in a language only your people understand you have a better chance at doing so by using Gnoll, or Goblin. Which by comparison require going through the hassle of actually finding a teacher for those languages, and suffer the drawback of being harder to learn.

EDIT: Checked the wiki, this is SPECIFICALLY drow sign language so... idk why its so learnable, but should probly be evil restricted with a good sign equivalent.

Ninjimmy wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:07 pm EDIT: Checked the wiki, this is SPECIFICALLY drow sign language so... idk why its so learnable, but should probly be evil restricted with a good sign equivalent.

Added the word Drow for clarification.

Drow sign is a learnable language in the realms.

It is not something even drow automatically get - it is generally reserved to their society elites as to who ever takes it.

Lastly - even their enemies learn it. The priesthood of Shevarash and those of Calladuran Smoothands learn it to counter, trick, and destroy the Drow at their own game.

When it comes to language and the realms the goals Arelith sets are probably going to be arbitrary but where it comes to learning or knowing something - the cat will, with the exception of Druidic, be out of the bag.

Language is not meant to be this insurmountable fortress. Anyone who speaks something who wants to be discreet must understand that the discretion is on you.

I have similar concerns but not with the learning aspect, but more the usage of the language.
I see it very often being used as simply sign language, or the primary means of communication for mute characters, notably without ANY connection to Drow, not by the characters of the sign language being used.

I think if the language was called "Drow Sign" and showed up in server text even as "[Drow Sign]: Blah blah blah", this would really get the point across to characters they are in fact using Drow sign language, and not just any old sign language.

Loremaster being such a popular choice for the PvP meta doesn't help the issue of lots of people being able to understand lots of languages. I think that contributes more than awards. Most people would rather spend their awards on a race or level boost. But at least it's better now than the days when just dumping lore meant you could understand 100% of languages all the time.

Hazard wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:49 am I have similar concerns but not with the learning aspect, but more the usage of the language.
I see it very often being used as simply sign language, or the primary means of communication for mute characters, notably without ANY connection to Drow, not by the characters of the sign language being used.

I think if the language was called "Drow Sign" and showed up in server text even as "[Drow Sign]: Blah blah blah", this would really get the point across to characters they are in fact using Drow sign language, and not just any old sign language.

NGL I fell to this with my first reply and had to edit since I thought sign language was general purpose.

I desperately wish that there could be a general sign language added, that's learnable, and then change drow sign to "drow military code" or something along those lines to cement the arelith canon of its purpose.

Granted, I've rarely seen drow sign used in a way for subtle signaling purposes. Seems like everyone knows about it IG, even if they can't understand, so if you wiggle your fingers, hostility rises.

It lets loremasters have a bit of versatility instead of being forced to be a drow druid/rogue/LM. I like that idea.

Edit: to be able to learn all languages, that is.

Yeah, the way in which Drow Sign is handled is pretty cheap, imho. It would be probably for the best to make it a greater award, or remove it as a bonus language at character creation altogether. Loremaster is a decent enough way to unlock it, and already pretty widespread by itself. Whoever wishes to study the drow in order to "beat them at their own game" can do so already with that mean. Normal award is just overkill and takes away any degree of exoticism or mystery from it.

I figured Loremasters got Drow Sign Language -so it should be a normal award too.

I would love to see a general 'sign language' - that could be quite nifty for deaf/none speaking characters.

If Drow Sign Language is removed from a Normal award, I also think it should be removed as a Lore Master language too.