Arelith

The Design and ambience in the Half-Orc Camp is something special and I like the idea of it very much. Clearly the devs put alot of effort into it with enough space for players to expand on that. The constellation of quarters, shops and npcs gives alot to work with and allows players to build something. But there is something that does not seem to fit into this purpose at all.

A small camp like that doesnt have the numbers and activity of players, so I would argue that players building a community there require special protection. The small climbing spot outside of the camp seems to defeat that purpose entirely and seems more like a slap in the face to everyone who tries to fill this small, delicate pace with life. It is easily passed by most PCs and practicaly anyone can come in, grab everything from the chest of the ship or sink it. It fills the area with enough uncertainty and futility that it never really quite feels like it BELONGS to the community there. While in a large settlement/city it is legitimate to have these hidden passages, in a small, delicate, player driven camp (with so much potential) it seems out of place.

Personally I am no part of the community there nor will I ever be, but more of an invested spectator I am sure I am missing many important details that legitimize this design, but it sort of bugs me that a wonderful opportunity for group RP among players collaborating like this is so easily discouraged, while all it takes is a very minor fix.

The camp looks pretty decent when thinking is should serve as some kind of sanctuary for half-orcs. The whole part about not letting anyone in but Horc is pretty good although annoying for any non-horc player. But at least it is not Myon with their magical racial portal.
The climbing spot isn't directly out in the open so you still have to be searching the area a bit. It is not like Bendir for comparison where right beside the main gates there is a climbing spot.

fulminea wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:39 pm The small climbing spot outside of the camp seems to defeat that purpose entirely and seems more like a slap in the face to everyone who tries to fill this small, delicate pace with life.

Even before the climbing spot, there were other ways into the camp for non-half orcs. I don't think Arelith has ever had a racial-locked 'settlement' entrance that didn't have a back door, with the exception of ol' Udos Dro'xun (I can't remember if there WAS a way for non-drow to slip in past the gate w/o a drow minder bringing them in.)

This is now an Udos nostalgia thread.

Flower Power wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:52 pm

fulminea wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:39 pm The small climbing spot outside of the camp seems to defeat that purpose entirely and seems more like a slap in the face to everyone who tries to fill this small, delicate pace with life.

Even before the climbing spot, there were other ways into the camp for non-half orcs. I don't think Arelith has ever had a racial-locked 'settlement' entrance that didn't have a back door, with the exception of ol' Udos Dro'xun (I can't remember if there WAS a way for non-drow to slip in past the gate w/o a drow minder bringing them in.)

In my opinion it is not relevant if there was ever anything like that on the server before, this change would be helpful for the players in the camp, is what I believe. This is a small camp, not a settlement. Excluding non half-orc PCs from the camp does not affect them in any signifacnt way.

fulminea wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:52 pm In my opinion it is not relevant if there was ever anything like that on the server before, this change would be helpful for the players in the camp, is what I believe. This is a small camp, not a settlement. Excluding non half-orc PCs from the camp does not affect them in any signifacnt way.

The removal of that climbing spot is unlikely to happen:

Irongron wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:11 am I consider 'closed door RP' one of the great banes of the server, and the anathema of an engaging roleplay environment

It seems like non-Half Orcs can buy quarters there.

The npc only lets half orcs inside. So mechanically there might be no restrictions for other races to buy them, but ICly clearly the setting dictates that anyone non horc wouldnt be tolerated.

fulminea wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 7:31 am The npc only lets half orcs inside. So mechanically there might be no restrictions for other races to buy them, but ICly clearly the setting dictates that anyone non horc wouldnt be tolerated.

Other races can get in with a persuasion or intimidation check as well.

And having the camp closed would just make it even less active than it already is. The active half-orc population is not large, and the small subset of it interested in camp-rp rather than just joining non-racial factions is even smaller.

Last I checked, there was no option to persuade or intimidate in the dialogue so I think that way into the camp is disabled atm. The gate is also no longer breakable at all so it means that while none half orc PCs can own quarters, most cant enter reliably enough to own a quarter and use it freely. I sort of like it this way. Just for comparison, I think all quarters in Soulhaven should require monk lvls (that may be the case, I dont remember), but for the half breed camp I actually like that it's much harder to get in but the quarters are not restricted. It's more dynamic and thematic imo. Granted, the climb/persuade/intimidate checks should require actual investment, not just gear and being dex or cha based.

AstralUniverse wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:47 am Granted, the climb/persuade/intimidate checks should require actual investment, not just gear and being dex or cha based.

I agree with this. Its too easy for people to get in. Maybe increasing the dc would be nice. But again I only have my Perspektive and above there are people bringing up the Cons of removing the Spot i hadnt thought about. Maybe there are better ways how to Promote RP in the camp than removing the Climb spot and im curious what you guys think.

fulminea wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:27 pm

AstralUniverse wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:47 am Granted, the climb/persuade/intimidate checks should require actual investment, not just gear and being dex or cha based.

I agree with this. Its too easy for people to get in. Maybe increasing the dc would be nice. But again I only have my Perspektive and above there are people bringing up the Cons of removing the Spot i hadnt thought about. Maybe there are better ways how to Promote RP in the camp than removing the Climb spot and im curious what you guys think.

Well, the on the flipside, making the camp harder to enter will diminish even more the RP avenues and population in a place with a very poor track record for vivid and complex plots - it's been mostly empty for many years. I dont know what the deal with the NPC intimidate/persuade checks atm but if the roll does occur and there are multiple ways to enter, then the DCs should perhaps reach "skill ranks investment" territory, but if entering through social skills isnt an option for now, than the climb/sail shouldnt be too hard, or the place will be very silent for long time.

AstralUniverse wrote: Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:38 pm making the camp harder to enter will diminish even more the RP avenues and population in a place with a very poor track record for vivid and complex plots - it's been mostly empty for many years

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Making the camp harder to enter goes against the principles that made the Halfbreed Camp exist in the first place. The original Horde camp was just a fixture spam erected by players, no walls or gates. It was a place where Half-orc RP thrived, but it was very common to see outsiders sitting by the fire too. As reward, the camp was turned into its own area, the one we have now.

I think any racially restricted settlements are a bad idea. They fail as soon as enough people stop playing that race. It also produces cliquey/incestuous RP.

I would much rather see places dedicated to Ideologies, like libertarian / outlaw camps, or a ruined settlement with a temple you could take over and rebuild for your religious group X.

A ruined temple really would be something. You could have any religion in there as a result so you'd see some odd choices prop up on the surface!

(or torm)

ZeroPointEnergy wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:39 pm It seems like non-Half Orcs can buy quarters there.

Speaking mechanically I am not sure quarters can be set so only a certain race can buy them, from what I have seen it has to be DM enforced if someone who isn't supposed to buys a racially limited quarter.

Which would mean it may be possible for others to buy half-orc-only quarters but that doesn't mean it's encouraged or that they will be allowed to keep them. I don't know that area's rules but I would think and hope if a half-orc who was RPing out of there saw a human who bought one.just to use as storage they could alert a DM and they'd give the human the boot.

The camp, frankly, just shouldn't exist.

To keep beating the dead horse, Arelith needs more areas/places/things that are "blank slates" and can be defined and redefined by the players of the day.

Instead, there is belief/fallacy, that roleplaying in a certain area or specific should warrant the developers to create permanency to reflect significance.

Need to stop doing that. Just give us more playgrounds.

However, I completely understand the aversion to that because we have a psychotic section of the playerbase who have managed to somehow create the 21st C housing crisis in our game.

I think I'm going to start a word document with headings for each of the topics that comeup constantly on the forums so I can just copy and paste. Here is what I said last time this thread ran and I hold to it:

Archnon wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:56 pm

Zaphiel wrote: Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:23 pm

Archnon wrote: Fri Nov 06, 2020 6:18 pm

This would be awesome. You've got the seedy port next to a camp that thrives on more chaotic builds/classes. Open housing up to other groups and open traffic up to everyone.

Finally, add in a Chaotic radiant heart equivalent. Chaotic-neutral (Good, neutral, evil) mercenary guild that gives jobs and has markings like the radiant heart. Something to offset for the other end of the spectrum. Then you can encourage mercenary RP, for example settlements may want to hire Half-Orc guards. Or you could go there to hire a dwarven barbarian guard if you are sailing now, which has increased in riskiness. Then it would make sense next to the port. I think there could be more room for non-lawful, non-evil RP there.

+1

Rare that one of my ideas gets a nod from two of the top devs so I figured I should seize the moment and say something more.

It would be really great if this could function more like the assassins guild, where players could join and get hired by other players. You join and you get access to the message boards. People can take out contracts where they post the IC and OOC day and time of their expedition and you check the boards and if there is one you want to do, you take the contract and show up. You could do a payment system where the person puts in money upon posting the contract and then reports if the mercenaries showed up and the guild pays it out to them. Keep the amounts small and let it be an opportunity for chaos both ways. Mercenaries could show up and turn, or leave early, leaving the contractor in dire straights. Contractors could refuse to pay at the risk of not getting contracts in the future. etc. etc.

Do something with it that encourages active RP. This type of system would be a great place to point new players to to find opportunities for adventuring parties and building relationships. This can be especially important in what can be a bit of an overwhelming server.