Arelith

The original reason for increasing the gp cost of breaking a slave collar was supposedly to give becoming a slave more significance which wasn't a bad idea imo. Yet the Slaver Manuals still exist as part of the alternative to paying and have been farmed by certain factions to the point that being a slave is still effectively a non-commitment as long as you're willing to appeal to the relevant mega-factions. Imo the easiest way to resolve this would be making slaver manuals something that needs to be turned in relatively quickly upon being found rather than something that can be farmed and stockpiled as this just leads to slavery only being a mechanic for players who can't count on faction support (this is before even touching on topics like players selecting which slaves to assist based on knowledge of who's playing which slave from discord). If slavery is supposed to actually be a commitment I don't see a lot of reason to make the gp cost so steep while keeping the manuals in a state that's easily farmed and stockpiled (especially considering bookshelf farming is lucrative now too anyway).

To put this bluntly, the slave system has two issues:
People using it to level
Difficulty to free yourself

Slavery should be ENTIRELY consensual and as such I actually think the cost increase was over the top, but that was before my joining the team.

If we made books decay, I would propose internally that we lower the amount needed drastically, gold and books.
This is not really as larger an issue as it may seem and if people are suspected of using it for leveling purposes only to then escape, report it.

the slavery system should get chunked entirely, leaving prisoner only.

If we made books decay, I would propose internally that we lower the amount needed drastically, gold and books

OH GOD NO NOT THE BOOKS!

Somewhere deep in my soul I'm weeping right now! By all means - maybe one of the other collectable items sure! By all means make that argument! I don't know I'd agree with it, but it's better than books.

The books have ALWAYS been the biggest, baddest, most nightmarish part of that mess. Making them decay... the idea makes me want to curl up and weep hysterically in pure sympathy for anyone daring to do that quest!

If we made books decay, I would propose internally that we lower the amount needed drastically, gold and books.

I am absolutly with this argument. Now I'm going to lie back, gazing at the ceiling and trying to rid the screaming nightmare of the idea of slaver books dissapearing from my head...

*Goes to rock quietly in a corner*

Sincra wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:57 pm To put this bluntly, the slave system has two issues:
People using it to level
Difficulty to free yourself

Slavery should be ENTIRELY consensual and as such I actually think the cost increase was over the top, but that was before my joining the team.

If we made books decay, I would propose internally that we lower the amount needed drastically, gold and books.
This is not really as larger an issue as it may seem and if people are suspected of using it for leveling purposes only to then escape, report it.

I actually think this would be a fairly ideal way to handle the change. Give books a decay rate but lower the amount needed to complete the requirement.

The slavery system, the whole thing, should be painted in blue and dumped in the ocean.

Drowboy wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:02 pm the slavery system should get chunked entirely, leaving prisoner only.

I agree. It's in extremely bad taste.

I think it's fun, and a good tool in the hands of responsible writers that abide by the rules. Certainly better than having people just add a description about having a collar and being a slave.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Slaver Manuals are only one part of FOIG. You cannot stockpile 27462347 of it. Or even if you did, it'd be pointless.

What's a slavery manual?

Yes... That's.. Uh, a serious question. I don't know what that is.

Responsible writers don't need the mechanics. I don't think anyone does. Even the prisoner collar should be 100% opt-out-able without any mechanics at any time. Another vote to axe it.

Watchful Glare wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:41 am I think it's fun, and a good tool in the hands of responsible writers that abide by the rules. Certainly better than having people just add a description about having a collar and being a slave.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Slaver Manuals are only one part of FOIG. You cannot stockpile 27462347 of it. Or even if you did, it'd be pointless.

They're only one part but they're frequently the bottleneck as the rest of FOIG isn't especially difficult or expensive.

Mattamue wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:54 am Responsible writers don't need the mechanics.

Keep reducing the argument, eventually one asks the question why play through the plataform as a game with mechanics in it at all. Writing forums exist.

Slavery is already optional. And requires OOC consent. Nothing stops anyone from picking a prisoner collar instead either. It's a choice.

You could use the prisoner system to bind a character to another without calling it "slavery". It's a problematic word. Obvious connotations to RL slavery aside the system encourages some behavior that pushes PG13 boundaries. I understand "live and let live" and usually have no problem avoiding it but I don't think that needs to be specifically endorsed or enabled by server mechanics.

Watchful Glare wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:21 am Slavery is already optional. And requires OOC consent. Nothing stops anyone from picking a prisoner collar instead either. It's a choice.

It's optional up until the point you want it removed. Why not have removing it as optional as putting it on?

I realize people have varying feelings about the quality of the slavery system but these criticisms are ultimately unrelated to the feedback I created this thread to evaluate.

Wings of Peace wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:52 am I realize people have varying feelings about the quality of the slavery system but these criticisms are ultimately unrelated to the feedback I created this thread to evaluate.

Hold that thought.

Watchful Glare wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:41 am I think it's fun, and a good tool in the hands of responsible writers that abide by the rules. Certainly better than having people just add a description about having a collar and being a slave.

Good writers dont need a mechanical collar. Mechanical collar is also not better than writing in the description, or emoting in game when it's relevant. It's a mechanical tool to level up faster and get going more easily in terms of character development and getting to know people. I have no shame in saying that when I see slave collar I immediately hold very low standards of RP from that player and hold little to no faith in what RP they might deliver with it (sometimes I'm surprised positively, most of the time I'm not).

I just really dont like that being a mechanically Slave in arelith means mechanical advantage and quite about no costs to it. Mechanical advantages usually cost awards at least idk.

I mentioned on another thread I literally saw someone murdered ICly because they were wearing a prisoner collar and refused to emote letting others take it off.

I'm sorry but I've very little faith in the player base to respect any sort of slavery situation that doesn't have some sort of mechanical component.

The players aren't mature enough for slavery w/collars (true), so we should leave it in anyway instead of just disallowing slavery?

Mattamue wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:38 am

Watchful Glare wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:21 am Slavery is already optional. And requires OOC consent. Nothing stops anyone from picking a prisoner collar instead either. It's a choice.

It's optional up until the point you want it removed. Why not have removing it as optional as putting it on?

We already have that, it's called prisoner collar. When you go to have your character put on a slave collar the npc literally tells you in no sugar-coating way the differences between the two and that you should pick one based on that. If you want to take it off anytime, you pick a prisoner collar. Slave collar is meant to be a long term choice that has it's own, separate difficulties that go with it. And again, you OOCly need to actually want and agree to wear either, and consent to it. You can't be forced to pick slave collar over prisoner collar, even if they tried. It's a personal choice, just as wearing one is in the first place.

AstralUniverse wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:07 am

Watchful Glare wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:41 am I think it's fun, and a good tool in the hands of responsible writers that abide by the rules. Certainly better than having people just add a description about having a collar and being a slave.

Good writers dont need a mechanical collar.

A good writer can probably do a well-written slave--I've certainly seen people write characters who are subservient to another character out of sheer terror without invoking the slavery system--but other players won't necessarily be good-enough writers or generous-enough roleplayers to respect that roleplay choice. Mechanical enforcement of status is necessary.

I would wonder if it's feasible to add an ECL penalty to the slave collar to slow their leveling?

The GrumpyCat wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:40 pm I mentioned on another thread I literally saw someone murdered ICly because they were wearing a prisoner collar and refused to emote letting others take it off.

I'm sorry but I've very little faith in the player base to respect any sort of slavery situation that doesn't have some sort of mechanical component.

Yes. This.

Too often people try to force slaves -rapidly- out of slavery, which ooc makes sense, but it's not as good a story to rush it. Mechanics are useful.

Amateur Hour wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:44 pm

AstralUniverse wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:07 am

Watchful Glare wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:41 am I think it's fun, and a good tool in the hands of responsible writers that abide by the rules. Certainly better than having people just add a description about having a collar and being a slave.

Good writers dont need a mechanical collar.

A good writer can probably do a well-written slave--I've certainly seen people write characters who are subservient to another character out of sheer terror without invoking the slavery system--but other players won't necessarily be good-enough writers or generous-enough roleplayers to respect that roleplay choice. Mechanical enforcement of status is necessary.

I would wonder if it's feasible to add an ECL penalty to the slave collar to slow their leveling?

YES! YES! YES! This. Beautifully put! Sorry I don't mean to gush but you've just summerised my thought beautifully.

Amateur Hour wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 5:44 pm

AstralUniverse wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:07 am

Watchful Glare wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:41 am I think it's fun, and a good tool in the hands of responsible writers that abide by the rules. Certainly better than having people just add a description about having a collar and being a slave.

Good writers dont need a mechanical collar.

A good writer can probably do a well-written slave--I've certainly seen people write characters who are subservient to another character out of sheer terror without invoking the slavery system--but other players won't necessarily be good-enough writers or generous-enough roleplayers to respect that roleplay choice. Mechanical enforcement of status is necessary.

I would wonder if it's feasible to add an ECL penalty to the slave collar to slow their leveling?

Just take away hub and ud portal access ... Make being a slave hard