Arelith

I can't give a well-founded opinion on this myself as I haven't traveled outside the city limits very much in recent times, but my impression when I did play outdoors was that people wouldn't play there a lot because there wasn't much variety in terms of dungeons. The Deep Wells didn't appeal to me as I don't like extremely long dungeons, and I always got the feeling that, if I started off in Guldorand, I would be overwhelmed by enemies that were far more powerful than my level, and wouldn't be able to afford proper gear with the money I started out with.

Another problem, but this is admittedly a minor one, is that the elven high hall is on the surface server instead of the Guldorand server, so there could sometimes be five characters in the high hall and my elven character would be loitering in the deserted town square not knowing she should go to the high hall itself. Also, because the elven high hall is on the surface server, the player count on the Guldorand server is artificially lowered.

Another reason is that the level range in Guldorand prohibits low-level characters from congregating there, but most characters in Arelith outside Skal are in my experience level 16 or above - I rarely meet low-level characters in Cordor.

I suspect the main reason people don't congregate in Guldorand very much has to do with a lack of resources there - when people plan expeditions for adamantine, they usually go to Castle Mourn or Red Dragon Isle. If there were more precious resources around Guldorand, particularly adamantine, people would probably stay there in greater numbers. This is just my uneducated opinion, though, and I am curious to hear what everyone else has to say.

This isn't the first time this conversation has been had, but I think it's worth having again if for no other reason than to give some players inspiration to liven Guldorand up! Fair warning, I haven't actively played in Guldorand for the last 3-4 months so view all my comments under the lens of "old fart yells at cloud".
There have been a few periods in which Guldorand (the fortress city) has had a pretty good number of players roleplaying regularly there, but largely it does suffer from a bit of an empty nest feeling. Why? A few reasons I can think of:

1) Split attention: when the fortress city was unveiled, the residents of old Guldorand (what is now Westcliff) flocked there, but over time many drifted back to the logging village. Since Westcliff is a vassal of Guldorand, the two settlements are inextricably tied and so the players involved there tend to need to pay attention to both settlements. With this split attention you have reduced player count in one place at any given time. And from what I've seen, most of the core Guldorand crew prefers to stay in Westcliff. Without a core crew operating in a settlement, it's bound to feel dead.
2) Large space: Guldorand is fascinating and extensive with terrific detail. It's also huge. Bendir can feel full and active with 5-8 players in it. Guldorand needs 3 times that many to give the same feeling of "There's some hustle and bustle here, it's an active area". The city seems - to me - designed to support a huge number of players. You could cram 50 players into the city at any given time and there would be space for everyone to do their own thing. But it doesn't lend itself well to supporting a small player count and feeling full.
3) Accessibility: There are players who don't even know Guldorand exists. Unless you came from Skal, you have to trek across the isle or take a series of specific ferries to get there from Cordor. It's not easily accessible by new players or characters. Andunor and Cordor are also big cities, but they fill up with players because they're starting locations. Every other settlements maintains a sense of activity because while the player counts are smaller, so too are the settlements. Guldorand is the only big city that isn't a starting location, so I'm not surprised it struggles to fill out with players.
Additionally, the city has no exit portal (Andunor and Cordor do). Another little quality of life thing that makes Guldorand less convenient to operate around.
4) Writ/reward/resource difficulty ratio: As you pointed out, the difficulty of writs around Guldorand combined with the lack of epic resources make it unappealing to go there when compared to other dungeoning locations. There's potentially a continuous stream of new characters flowing into the city from Skal, but those players aren't incentivized to stay in Guldorand because the adventuring is better in other locations.

There are undoubtedly other bits that will come up in this thread. Overall to me it seems a shame, because I love the architectural design of Guldorand, the Founders' oversight that allows grey-morality characters to operate there, the inherent tie to & conflict with Myon - all of it! It has so much potential.

I actually do play in Guldorand almost all the time I'm not on Skal. It's definitely my favourite city, design/layout wise.

There's a few things people say when this question comes up (not implying I agree with them):

- It's too hard for the reward, generally
- nobody else is there
- the Elven quarter weirdness you mentioned
- cave slimes in particular are annoying as heck, as are forest spiders.
- a lot of "Guldorand" is actually on the surface server

My own particular feedback would be that as a server, it isn't very big - you're 2 transitions away from surface heading west from the fortress city, and 3 heading south. North is a portal, east is the sea. There's plenty of dungeons and stuff underground, but surface area is actually quite small.

Westcliff area (surface) provides a much more reasonable post-skal questing content, difficulty wise, so often the best thing to go for new arrivals from Skal to Guldorand is go shopping, then leave. Boss monsters around Guldorand in particular seem brutally tough, generally fighting isn't too bad. I heard the sewer writs were tuned down recently, but I haven't had a chance to go.

Travel to and from feels vaguely inconvenient, doing your selling/restocking/turning in heads type chores in the city feels awkward, and bad pathing in the tilesets makes it generally unpleasant and claustrophic to operate in. I also hate the way the interior tilesets seem to obscure my camera.

I have not played there on a character, only passed through so far. The main thing that stopped me so far is the fact that it feels very empty. I hear all the things about resources and quests but my thought the city itself.

I have a hard time with the pathing. You can't walk down the middle of some streets cause carts are just.. left.. in them. Yes it gives an active feel but its sort of frustrating in navigating. Taking the stairs on either side is narrow and restrictive when you are actually with other people. I love that it does have a few allies but they were so tight feeling I typically avoid them unless I really need to look at something and its the only path.

The place is pretty, I love that you can tend bar and try to make the tavern active, the main plaza seems a natural gathering spot. It is odd the message board isn't in what feels like the congregating location and I wondered about the seating there. I get it makes more sense to linger indoors but people don't. Maybe do what happened in Brog and Cordor, make the seats that people keep adding in those areas a thing and make it more friendly to sit and rp. As it is now if there are more than two, either people stand or your back is to who you're speaking with.

I think people have found it fun/not fun over time. Changes with different groups of people coming and going. At the moment it's popping! There are so many people around, different factions, a lot of engaging RP. Highly recommend!

I think the point about the seating is good. People will instinctually use space in a way that feels natural. When you see seating and tables gathering in certain places, its because it feels comfortable to do so. Guldorand's oddly low fixture limit seem like a way to try and herd and dictate where the RP flows according to some designer vision rather than how people would necessary utilize the space if left to their own devices.

The limits could stand to be increased, or if they are completely dead set against this, perhaps reassessed with an eye to how the spaces get utilized in real practice now that the city has had some time to play out. I don't know that this would totally solve Guld's population problem, but its a small thing that could be done in the interim.

The carts on the ramps could go. The wall that separates the temp shops+bulletin board from the primary social area could go. I don't like that the bartender is racist and exclusive. It might be lore-accurate to have a shitty gatekeepy elf there, but it doesn't exactly *encourage* the area to be a bangin' social hub.

The Freeport could stand to be easier to get around in. Getting from the city down to the docks is a cramped and meandering experience. While I understand that this is an intentional, atmospheric choice, it could be opened up a -little-.

It would be nice not to be randomly teleported into the Elven district, too.

I would also tentatively put forward that the inevitable conflict from artificially smooshing Myon and Guldorand together hasn't exactly been the positive and narrative-rich experience the players involved were hoping for.

Lastly, I also want to say that Guldorand does a lot of things -right-, so I'm not just offering criticism without recognizing the positives. I like that it has a tangible vision, aesthetic, and a lot of love in its writing. It just think it suffers a little from designer hubris and giving ease of use/gameplay/playability a back seat to creative vision.

I think the general pve content around the city of Guldorand (both in game geographically and server-wise) is just not that interesting or rewarding enough to compete with the good old dungeons we all run in circles. That's the main issue for me. Another issue. When I want to sell my loot, in Guldorand I need to walk miles from merchant to merchant and unless I have time to intentionally walk slowly and look for RP, I will always default to selling everything in Sibayad where everything is concentrated in 1 screen near portals, which is yet one less reason to go to Guldorand.

Dreams wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:13 pm I think people have found it fun/not fun over time. Changes with different groups of people coming and going. At the moment it's popping! There are so many people around, different factions, a lot of engaging RP. Highly recommend!

I think this is probably the most important thing. Players ultimately make an area good or bad. That being said, there are definitely many things that could be improved, most of which have already been touched on but I will add some of my thoughts to them as well.

1) Leaving both westcliff and myon intact was a mistake. Westcliff gave the original guldorand folks a place to retreat to when they didn't like the changes initially (people generally don't like change) instead of forcing them to adapt which probably would have worked out well for them. I think this is the first time the city feels like its recovering from that initial wave rp wise. On the flip side, with myon still around its not like the elves are forced to make it work in their new home. They can be as stubborn and as inflexible as they like, and know that even if they get banished from guldorand they still have myon and the elven quarter under completely different rules.

2) The forementioned server weirdness. If I'm involved with Cordor rp, I can see that there are 30 people on and linger about the square or whatever waiting for people I know to come by. 15 of those people could be in the sewers, 15 of those people could be on the shadowplane doing writs, but it feels more crowded than the actual empty city. If Guldorand is dead, you know it and move on. Which the next person does in turn, and so forth. Again, kudos to the people of guld of late that have put an effort into changing this, but the point remains and will always arise as an issue with the ebb and flow of characters.

3) The city, despite all the clutter about, feels lifeless. I couldn't explain what the motivation for most of the founders are with a gun to my head. And the one I could explain, elves digging up ancient artifacts, never seems to actually happen. I fully support a move to more npc control on the server and have said so on these forums. But I would have expected that came with stories behind these npcs as opposed to just being tools to resolve player disputes when they get too crazy. And if you didn't want to do it that way, player owned taverns, sheriffs having the ability to make mistakes with laws as opposed to just being essentially the head of the guard, these are things that work in the old way to make cordor politics still popular. Its not always pretty, I admit it, but its better than nothing. And you can still have your npc overlords to step in when necessary.

4) I don't get the difference between above Beggar's gate and below it short of the shops being tax free. This is sort of connected to point 3, but I felt it was too important to just jam somewhere in that paragraph. Beggar's Gate to me at least seems like the perfect divide between pristine law and order and criminal orientated chaos, but then it has the zhentarim embassy and guards still patrolling. And as i understand it, it's in the sheriffs jurisdiction, but I could be wrong there. Either way, it just seems like a huge opportunity lost.

5) specific to the Guldorand start, it really could use some easier local writs. Sure, the writ giver gives you some stuff from over at westcliff that is level appropriate (though you gear level is likely low), but there is no easy way to get there from the city itself.

Just to conclude with a TLDR, Players ultimately make an area good or bad but there are plenty of things that could be tweaked to help them on that end. And while mashing different cultures into one high level city was a great idea, and I even would have found a way to work dwarves in personally, because the need to work together is mostly optional for elves and unnecessary for anyone who wants to avoid guldorand all together it has so far fallen way short of its potential.

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:33 pm

Dreams wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 4:13 pm I think people have found it fun/not fun over time. Changes with different groups of people coming and going. At the moment it's popping! There are so many people around, different factions, a lot of engaging RP. Highly recommend!

1) Leaving both westcliff and myon intact was a mistake. Westcliff gave the original guldorand folks a place to retreat to when they didn't like the changes initially (people generally don't like change) instead of forcing them to adapt which probably would have worked out well for them. I think this is the first time the city feels like its recovering from that initial wave rp wise. On the flip side, with myon still around its not like the elves are forced to make it work in their new home. They can be as stubborn and as inflexible as they like, and know that even if they get banished from guldorand they still have myon and the elven quarter under completely different rules.

SO MUCH this! The player politics of the two are so split it leads to a large gap between what people want to do and what can be done. Westcliff really needs to be destroyed and it's everything moved to the Fortress City. The old guard will be upset, but change is good and I feel it would been seen as an improvement after the dust settles.

Myon needs to be seperate from Guldorand. Give the elf district its own entrance and wall it off from the city proper. It's clear by now Myon has no desire to do anything with any other race, settlement, or faction. Try to force a middle ground isn't working. Either force Myon into Guldorand like Westcliff or separate it.

As it stands trying to lead Guldorand as Sheriff under the Charters restrictions and players not wanting to embrace the new vision of the city is what really bleeds the place. Most try to treat it as an extension of old Guldorand or Myon. Which is a shame. Guldorand now offers an interesting place for RP and a place for evil and good to interact above PvP.

Agree with many of the other posts about Myon/Guldorand’s forced semi-union. It doesn’t work and just leads to circular conflict that has no resolution. Welcoming pirates, dubious/evil organisations and certain UD races into the main city that shares walls with Myon’s own district was unlikely ever going to work. Didn’t really enjoy the repetitive dealings as a character in the Watch having to argue politics about boundaries/ethics that are out of any PCs control.

My personal thoughts are that the Elven District should either exist outside any PC control like Freeport, or should just be managed by the Sheriff and exist as an elven community outside of Myon’s control. As it stands now, the grey areas of control just seem to cause the same confusion/drama/pvp - and not really the fun sorts of these things!

I don't really have any criticisms of Guldorand, have been happy enough with my main living there.

If the goal is to shift players to Guld then I would suggest turning some temp shops to perm and lowering HD in some closer-in encounter areas to suit lower level writs ~ lvl 10 or so.

I'm busy IRL and when I play I tend to stick to what I know because I have to pack a lot in a few hours and generally rather accomplish a goal than explore some new city. I don't really have time or interest at the moment in exploring new areas. That might be my own deal or it might be a common unspoken reason. Deep Wells sounds like a cool dungeon but the time issue takes that off the table... Sounds like you need six hours plus to do it and I don't know when I'll ever have six uninterrupted hours to play again.

Other than that. I don't play an elf or monk, either of which would probably bring me there more. I don't like that so many shops there require you to enter buildings which isn't unique to the place but turns me off a lot of areas. The pathing is kind of weird but I guess I could get used to it. I also haven't felt there's a "here's where everyone hangs out" place to plop down there.. I'm sure it exists but when I go there I just see a few characters rushing somewhere and haven't seen a place like by the Cordor gates or Bendir benches where you can chill and people watch or butt into conversations.

Not sure why some areas are surface either, like the docks (or elven meeting hall as mentioned above I guess though I've never seen it). Maybe the Guld server could swallow up some nearby areas to alleviate Surface lag on weekend afternoons.

I'm in Guldorand and I like it a lot! My take on the issue is that you basically have to leave Guldorand the moment you get there from Skal, as the writs are not suitable to a fresh 15-16 leveled character with suboptimal gear. So whatever connections you might be bringing with you from Skal will likely dissipate, as people head to Sibayad, Westcliff, etc., and won't be back for another 5-10 levels.

Now those next areas are not on the Guldorand server, very few areas actually are. It seems to me like Guldorand could be very well served by adding two areas, one for 14-20 leveling, and a runic dungeon that's not on Surface so that we stay on the server while running content (I love the Deep Wells, but it's not exactly easily accessible). I use the player list to spy if someone I know is on to set up a grouping, but that's unlikely to happen between Guldurand folks when so much content is on Surface (which also lags a lot at times I might add).

Besides that, the central meeting space doesn't have any chairs. The fountain is nice and all, but there's no seating space. One might think that the bar would be where people hang out, but we bump into each other between activities. That bumping happens on the street, not in the bar.

It's still highly rated for me! I don't think I'll be moving, but that's how I see it.

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:33 pm
1) Leaving both westcliff and myon intact was a mistake. Westcliff gave the original guldorand folks a place to retreat to when they didn't like the changes initially (people generally don't like change) instead of forcing them to adapt which probably would have worked out well for them.

There are other reasons people prefer Westcliff to Guldorand. A lot of druids and rangers hang out there, which makes perfect sense given the natural setting. Personally I like the look and feel of Westcliff more than Guldorand; the secluded mountain town aesthetic is more enjoyable for me than cobblestones and brick walls. It's also less spread out and easier to run errands there; no walking for two minutes to get from the bank to the speedy. As an added bonus, it runs much better on my slow computer than huge Guldorand.

I was not playing in Guldorand when the change occurred, nor did I ever prior to then. So speaking as someone who arrived afterwards, I like Westcliff better.

Dr. B wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 9:50 pm

Babylon System is the Vampire wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 5:33 pm
1) Leaving both westcliff and myon intact was a mistake. Westcliff gave the original guldorand folks a place to retreat to when they didn't like the changes initially (people generally don't like change) instead of forcing them to adapt which probably would have worked out well for them.

There are other reasons people prefer Westcliff to Guldorand. A lot of druids and rangers hang out there, which makes perfect sense given the natural setting. Personally I like the look and feel of Westcliff more than Guldorand; the secluded mountain town aesthetic is more enjoyable for me than cobblestones and brick walls. It's also less spread out and easier to run errands there; no walking for two minutes to get from the bank to the speedy. As an added bonus, it runs much better on my slow computer than huge Guldorand.

I was not playing in Guldorand when the change occurred, nor did I ever prior to then. So speaking as someone who arrived afterwards, I like Westcliff better.

I mean, I don't know anything about current westcliff, and honestly an outpost on the edge of the territory that sometimes has tensions with the main city actually has a lot of potential as long as it doesn't devolve into a pvp slugfest over and over again. That's different than what happened when the city first opened though, when people were frustrated because they thought it was going to be one way but it turned out to be the other way. And since they had the option to just say "screw it, we are already ingrained in westcliff and can carry on as it was" that's exactly what happened. As a result, the early weeks of the city set a tone, and a conflict between the elven quarter and the "everyone else" district finished the city off until recently. I say that as a matter of fact, not with any judgement. I was an outsider looking in for most of this, so I can't say who was wrong or right in either situation. I just know that if Westcliff and Myon didn't still exist during these two things then players would have been forced to figure it out instead of just retreating to their comfort zones.

I find it inconvenient to navigate. Freeport has these large open avenue ramps... That are clogged with wagons meaning you have to sidle along the cramped stairs and side alleys, and most of the utilities in freeport, shops both PC and NPC are spread out over a dozen separate buildings so you never have any natural hubs to visit, instead having to transition in and out and in and out and in again as you go about your business across the district.

The other districts are more open and don't suffer quite as badly from the clutter, but still very much from the buildings all being separate, there's no proper equivalent of the Cordor merchantile where you have a bunch of useful NPC's and player shops clustered together for easy browsing.

Overall, it feels a lot like its a city that's designed to be pretty to look at, rather than the functionality of actually walking around and doing stuff in it.

I've loved the setting since day one. I take pleasure in dragging my meetings with other PCs into the city's little nooks and crannies. Leaving secret messages in the wine shop, chase scenes through the catacombs, violence and intimidation in the alleys of the Freeport - it's so evocative and really gives the player's imagination a kick-start. Especially recently, I've found the quality of play to be exceptional. I've been drawn into storylines within minutes of stepping through the gates. Now's a great time to explore the city!

I'm pretty sure Guldorand is supposed to be an attempt at a New Myth Drannor.

The city appears designed to encourage elf + human interaction. The garrison is intended for both myonian and guldorand people to use it. While the current dynamic of myon and guldorand is at the moment, the furthest thing possible from cooperative, it is a nice encouragement to learn to work together, even when you do not get along or see eye to eye. The conflict the city has ICly all the time with Myon x Guldorand is completely player driven. It doesn't have to be that way, that's just how the players have had it play out. The conflict is also, arguably, one of the only interesting quirks about the city. There is immense intrigue between the two and all the smaller bodies within. It's kind of like Andunor but more chaotic neutral and on the surface.

I think what could help Guldorand is giving it more reasons to go there and making it even easier to get to. Boat from Cordor right to Guldorand. Maybe some npcs that provide a service like language teachers or something. I also think giving it a better hub could help. Cordor and Myon's hubs are extremely effective because they are sat precisely in a major thoroughfare that is also within arms reach of all amenities (bank, shops, bounty turn in, message board, portal). Guldorands "hub" is the main square, which because of some placables like the flower cart lack a sort of natural "space" for people to congregate. Maybe just putting a park there with a sitting spot is a good idea. I know we don't 'like' sitting spots, but I can't help but feel a side-eye coming on when someone complains no one is in a town, and then complains about seating fixtures. And finally, maybe the writ man can do something to encourage people to come by?

Otherwise, I think Guldorand has a lot of potential to be excellent. The areas are well designed and feel organic. I like the set up for the charter and myon and freeport. the regular play times appear to be 6-11pm est for most of the Guldorand regulars, so if you're seeing it empty, that might be it too. I'll also just say, I've been picking up the sense that there is some bias against Guldorand for reasons beyond my understanding. There's lots going on there right now. Jump in and give it a try.

I'm a relatively new player who's only played in bursts in the past, as I drifted to other servers, but since coming back I've greatly enjoyed Guldorand. Take my post with the skepticism it may be due, because I'm going to address it from a design perspective and how it appears to influence player action, as I lack historical and server-culture context.

There are somethings that cause frustration among characters (and players) that are as such, I suspect, because players are robbed of the choice of making their own destiny. Robbed of agency.

The Founder's Charter is inviolable. It forces Elves and Guldoranders to live side by side with seemingly incompatible ways of life (I personally think this is debatable.) There is a strict tolerance policy in the Outer city and an inability to hold organizations accountable for the actions of one. It seems like the Law tries to please a lot of people without actually pleasing anyone. And the kicker is that the High Sheriff's job is to effectively maintain this status quo of setting-enforced neutrality with no ability to distort the Founder's Charter even just a little bit. A sort of arbiter at the axis of gameworld and storyworld.

I understand the intent behind its design, I think. Guldorand appears to have been intended to be a melting pot where characters can clash in a semi-regulated environment. Like an arena that puts everyone on the same even ground and encourages them to be cunning and creative in their conflicts with one another. Characters of all creeds, origins, and goals may clash at all levels of their identity. They conflict over faith, over deeds, over affiliations, and we see this often in Guldorand. This intent would ideally allow for deeper conflict-oriented storylines to emerge organically from shared proximity with one's rivals and enemies.

But I think Andunor, by design, is set up to do it better. There are three settlements in Andunor: the Devil's table, the Sharps, and the Docks (I think?). In this manner, the design allows for different factions to flourish side by side while maintaining cohesion within their respective organizations. And I understand it has often worked successfully. Factions build up... Eventually spill over one another, and conflict emerges organically. As it should be.

In Guldorand, though, the reality is much different. There is only one High Sheriff, despite there being the Elven Quarter and Freeport nearby. The strict separation of Watch and Garrison makes it unreasonably difficult for faction leaders to populate their factions. The Founder's Charter is needlessly stifling. Really, there are lot of things one could cite here.

All of those things are fun to explore in character, but it is important to note that the lack of potential for mutability found in the Charter means that, eventually, characters run into a wall or ceiling where they are reminded of their ultimate lack of agency.

I can understand why players have taken their roleplay and creativity elsewhere. I've been having a blast and the players have been welcoming, as well as high-effort in their dealings with me. I appreciate it.

As for how to fix these incidental design flaws? Maybe make the Freeport a mini-settlement that has some autonomy. Maybe add a ferry line from Guldorand to other, more easily accessible hubs. Maybe add a clause that allows confusion of Watch and Garrison until there are enough people to populate one before branching out to the other. Maybe make the Charter less immutable. Maybe shoot the Founders in the back of the head. I'm not certain.

I think some of the hurdles can be overcome in character, but by my reckoning, there are definite mechanical design flaws that players cannot overcome and the focus should be put on scrutinizing those.

Erasing Westcliff is not going to (force) me or anyone else to do anything and the fact that people are advocating using force to (make) people do as they wish is sketchy at best.

The City of Guldorand is a building masterpiece. I do think it deserves to be more populated than it sometime is.

I've played there extensively, but have recently left off due to some of the concerns listed above. For me the biggest turn-off is the baked-in factionalism with the Elven Quarter/Myon involvement and the other well-established Faerunian factions, such as the Red Wizards, the Zhentarim, etc. There is also one of the longest-running player factions behind much of the action in Guldorand, which can be daunting to outsiders. There is no way some of these powers can peaceably cohabitate, and maybe that is the point, but for me the endless struggle over what Guldorand "should" be made me long for parts of the module with a more established identity.

1. A lot of players really really loved the old Guldorand. Then It was forcefully disrupted by the “new city” which objectively made no sense in-character. This frustration soured some people on an OOC level and now they just have a general distaste for New Guldorand. Some of these people play in Westcliff and others just avoid the whole mess. I feel this way to an extent, I know several other people who feel similarly and I suspect there’s quite a bit more out there.

2. Again speaking for myself, but I believe also for some other people: Some players like to play in a settlement that changes slowly. What some people would call “stagnant”. I can’t stand it when my character has to re-learn who’s-who every 2 IrL weeks. I hate having to spend 30-60 minutes of playtime every couple days reading boards and gossiping to have a basic idea of what’s going on in the settlement. I don’t understand how other people do this, it’s exhausting. Old Guldorand gave humans and other races a place to be when they wanted a more relaxed place than Cordor but didn’t want to or couldn’t live in a racial settlement. New Guldorand is more like Cordor in this respect. I remember a lot of people saying “if I wanted to play in a big chaotic city, I’d be playing in Cordor already.”

All the things that made old Guldorand great disappeared with the new city. And the new city feels like playing in Cordor with fewer PCs and weird NPC/DM rules that are very difficult to RP around in a convincing way.

I did give Guldorand a chance for a good long while on one character, got very involved, etc. So many things went on that made no sense. And when investigated IC, always boiled down to some hand waving about charters and councils. Followed by a Tell saying “I know this makes no sense but we have to do XYZ because of the weird Guldorand rules please just try and play along”.

That got old… fast.

I love the new city, RP wise it offers a LOT and I've enjoyed the stories that have come out of it. I think Cordor should be given the same treatment, getting a charter to prohibit players from banning "undesirable" elements of the playerbase. I think Cordor needs it more than Guldorand since it's a starting area.

I agree with the issue of dungeons though. The deep well is interesting in concept, but it doesn't give enough rewards to justify doing it. As well, no resting doesn't make it harder. It means people use more consumables, and it means casters can't do it. So the already low rewards are made worse by increased consumable use. It's also very long, which compounds on the no rest/no caster issue even more. I find the Bastille really draining to do because of how long it is, and it's not even a no-rest area. No amount of loot will make me go back to the Bastille due to its length. I think it's pretty telling that people are asking for a new epic dungeon rather than giving the deep wells better loot.

I also agree that Guld writs aren't for people fresh off the boat from Skal, especially considering that any level can leave Skal and end up there. This ends up being a big issue- There's frequently people fresh off Skal asking how to leave the city. Anyone who frequents the city will see it. I do my best to try and direct people, but I'm left wondering how many people are left feeling lost whenever there's nobody around. I had no idea the boat travel NPC was still around, and the caravan is now very difficult to use due to the slowing of time.

I agree with Nitro about the issue of the carts in the middle of the road in Freeport, it makes navigating really annoying. I can't pathfind my way around if I point and click, I always have to WASD my way through the freeport. I like point and click so I can speak while I move. Or take a drink of water or something. With that said, I disagree about the freeport not having any natural congregating points. The area right outside of the beggar's gate is a pretty good congregation point. Ormag's been chilling there lately and it seems to work well.

Overall, the city is just like any other city where groups of people will be chilling in the square at various times of the day. It just seems like the server is dead because there's not many zones in it. A long time ago there were talks of adding more zones to it, so at some point that'll probably happen. Other people have described the issue of a small player list pretty well, where people log in, see nobody on the server, and so go to another server.


EDIT: Another big thing I think the city needs is water/food/spirits to be more accessible. The tavern doesn't sell food, the butcher who gets stuck inside the wall doesn't sell water, and the only place that sells spirits is the freeport tavern.

I feel that modern Arelith area design emphasizes spectacle and baked-in narrative over coherent player networking. Breathtaking, labyrinthine, highly detailed and life-like city streets or almost to scale wilderness areas make for a great singleplayer RPG set piece, but in an MMO the same experience can be unwelcoming or isolating.

Personally, I've felt like a barely tolerated guest in a lot of new areas, like a kid in a LEGO diorama exhibit who is told to not touch anything.

Guldorand - similar in ways to other cool but largely abandoned areas introduced in recent years - is very thematically demanding. Arelith had long prided itself as being a blank canvas for players to express themselves, so I don't think it's crazy to suggest the playerbase, at large, tends towards those places where they are given agency and the promise of legacy and impact. Why try to put down roots in a place where your PC is ever to be overshadowed by much cooler NPCs -- who make the rules, crowd the streets, or literally block the stage?

I still think Guldorand is great. There is amazing roleplay happening there. I know there are downsides to player agency, and that some places really ought to resist "Cordor Guardification". Really, I think the dynamics of where is and isn't popular has everything to do with what the players make of it. I've seen practically every settlement go through a boom and bust cycle at this point. I think if anything we just have way too many areas to congregate, and think that despite all I've said, Guldorand would probably still be quiet even were it a perfectly functional unbranded settlement.