Arelith

Hi, my feedback is that I don't like this ooc notification. I feel that it is a disengagement-enabling feature. Also if there were a surprising shakeup type of result, as a result of people not paying attention to IC notification processes, all it would do is add some drama and maybe even incentivize re-engagement.

How am i as a settlement leader meant to know there is an election against me if there isnt a notification?

TooManyPotatoes wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:27 pm How am i as a settlement leader meant to know there is an election against me if there isnt a notification?

If only settlement leaders are supposed to get this, maybe it's just a bug ? I get this as an ooc notification on login.

I'm glad that the OOC notification is there, because it means that it's not possible to hold a "secret" election when the settlement leader is, say, out of town for the weekend--get your buddies together, trigger an election, only you all vote and never tell anyone it happened. That, to me, is far more immersion-breaking than an OOC notification.

Amateur Hour wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:52 pm I'm glad that the OOC notification is there, because it means that it's not possible to hold a "secret" election when the settlement leader is, say, out of town for the weekend--get your buddies together, trigger an election, only you all vote and never tell anyone it happened. That, to me, is far more immersion-breaking than an OOC notification.

But isn't the timeline between calling an election and the actual election, a fair bit longer than a weekend?

Arelith Wiki wrote:Once begun an election runs for two in-game weeks or exactly 4 real-life days and 16 hours.

It's a little bit longer than a weekend, but still short enough for players to miss had there been no notification whatsoever.

-XXX- wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 9:23 pm

Arelith Wiki wrote:Once begun an election runs for two in-game weeks or exactly 4 real-life days and 16 hours.

It's a little bit longer than a weekend, but still short enough for players to miss had there been no notification whatsoever.

Ah I see, thanks. Still the tail shouldn't wag the dog, and the emphasis should be on IC participation, not on the game oocly telling players that it's time to do some amount of IC participation when they may just have logged in to reset their room and burn craft points.

Yeah, but let's say you're a super active member of a settlement. You're in one (or several) of the settlement factions, you go to settlement meetings, you attend events put on by the settlement and even help organize some of them yourself.

But then RL calls and your ability to log in for a few days is greatly curtailed to occasionally popping in to check on a few things: it just so happens that this is when the election ends up being called. Is it fair that this sort of player, who isn't terribly uncommon a figure either, should get shafted out of the opportunity to help decide who gets to call the shots in their settlement just because of an unfortunate mixing of RL timing and the game's election cycle?

I'd much rather have a quick reminder ingame, when elections are called, than to have people who are in this boat or similar ones have to rely on other forms of OOC-and-OOG communication to get a heads up that their opportunity to have some say in what happens is here.

Flower Power wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 11:46 pm Yeah, but let's say you're a super active member of a settlement. You're in one (or several) of the settlement factions, you go to settlement meetings, you attend events put on by the settlement and even help organize some of them yourself.

But then RL calls and your ability to log in for a few days is greatly curtailed to occasionally popping in to check on a few things: it just so happens that this is when the election ends up being called. Is it fair that this sort of player, who isn't terribly uncommon a figure either, should get shafted out of the opportunity to help decide who gets to call the shots in their settlement just because of an unfortunate mixing of RL timing and the game's election cycle?

I'd much rather have a quick reminder ingame, when elections are called, than to have people who are in this boat or similar ones have to rely on other forms of OOC-and-OOG communication to get a heads up that their opportunity to have some say in what happens is here.

Yeah... I think participating in elections should be just a little more difficult for this type of player, than being able to rely on ooc notification. Agree to disagree I guess!

What would be a better way, then, that doesn't allow a group to force an election in secret when a settlement leader has announced they're on vacation for a week? Sincerely.

Amateur Hour wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 1:01 am What would be a better way, then, that doesn't allow a group to force an election in secret when a settlement leader has announced they're on vacation for a week? Sincerely.

Well I'm trying to feedback not suggestion but it seems like for ex. elections at regularly scheduled intervals just like we have in RL would work, and shouldn't need an ooc reminder. Or just a longer lead up to an election under the current system, sans ooc reminder. Besides the leader- they should still get a reminder I guess?

TurningLeaf wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 12:42 am

Flower Power wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 11:46 pm Yeah, but let's say you're a super active member of a settlement. You're in one (or several) of the settlement factions, you go to settlement meetings, you attend events put on by the settlement and even help organize some of them yourself.

But then RL calls and your ability to log in for a few days is greatly curtailed to occasionally popping in to check on a few things: it just so happens that this is when the election ends up being called. Is it fair that this sort of player, who isn't terribly uncommon a figure either, should get shafted out of the opportunity to help decide who gets to call the shots in their settlement just because of an unfortunate mixing of RL timing and the game's election cycle?

I'd much rather have a quick reminder ingame, when elections are called, than to have people who are in this boat or similar ones have to rely on other forms of OOC-and-OOG communication to get a heads up that their opportunity to have some say in what happens is here.

Yeah... I think participating in elections should be just a little more difficult for this type of player, than being able to rely on ooc notification. Agree to disagree I guess!

The... type of player with OOC obligations? So, everyone?

OOC organization of leadership challenges is strictly against the rules, because it encourages OOC cliques taking over entire settlements w/o a real challenge, and without IC roleplay. Which is: Fun for nobody, not very fair.

I'm not sure if that extends to someone bumping you in Discord and going, "Hey, there's a leadership challenge going on," but because there's a little notification that tells you that a leadership challenge has been initiated, you don't have to deal with that! It's the kind of immersion break I'm perfectly capable of dealing with.

The alternative is, for active settlement leaders, you go and check to see if there's a leadership challenge called every single time you log in just to be sure one hasn't, which cuts in the time you spend doing important and/or fun things, and for settlement leaders who have lives and might not be able to play for a couple of days, you get rugpulled before you can even respond. The ooc notification is fine.

Paint wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 1:42 am OOC organization of leadership challenges is strictly against the rules, because it encourages OOC cliques taking over entire settlements w/o a real challenge, and without IC roleplay. Which is: Fun for nobody, not very fair.

I'm not sure if that extends to someone bumping you in Discord and going, "Hey, there's a leadership challenge going on," but because there's a little notification that tells you that a leadership challenge has been initiated, you don't have to deal with that! It's the kind of immersion break I'm perfectly capable of dealing with.

The alternative is, for active settlement leaders, you go and check to see if there's a leadership challenge called every single time you log in just to be sure one hasn't, which cuts in the time you spend doing important and/or fun things, and for settlement leaders who have lives and might not be able to play for a couple of days, you get rugpulled before you can even respond. The ooc notification is fine.

Is the biggest value add of the ooc notification, really that it obviates the need to metagame? I find that kind of disheartening. Do we expect that people will just discord around all the rules then or just this one?

As for people having lives RL, I get that, I'm very busy myself. Too busy, in fact, to ever consider having one of my characters run for office. I suppose by some logic that's unfair to me, right? But from another point of view it seems like the right thing to do. I don't even think it bears explaining.

Your character continues to live and breathe when you log off. The notification reminder is the result of your character being a citizen* of a settlement and hearing the call for an election, while you were offline.

As others have asked, how else are those of us who don't sit around Discord 24/7 supposed to know?

*Non-citizens do not get this notification. I suppose if it really bothers you, revoking your citizenship is something to consider.

I think we all have a lot of stuff to remember on our daily lives. Don't need to add 20 years old elfgame elections to that.

I get where you are coming from. And despite some of the ways people worded their posts, I am sure they do to. But as people have said, any benefit that removing it would bring would be far outweighed by the pitfalls that will also come along with said removal.

Wrips wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 4:28 am I think we all have a lot of stuff to remember on our daily lives. Don't need to add 20 years old elfgame elections to that.

If people care so little about the outcome of elections why even vote? If they care so much about the outcome of elections why not log on enough to have some IC interaction or at least read an IG board? It seems very odd to me that there is such a great fear of an election outcome being gamed OOCly, that the only way to respond is by incorporating a significant OOC element into the election process.

Most players already won't vote because they don't care, and of the handful that do a lot wouldn't know to if there was no notification.

Without the notification you would just get small groups sneaking into power when they vote for themselves and no one realises an election was called. It wouldn't provide RP as much as it would just disrupt and end RP. Arelith is already a never ending cycle of constant conflict, and the political system is one of the most chaotic and stressful perpetual conflict cycles we have, we really don't need to make it surprising and chaotic on top of that.

It's already, seemingly intentionally so, impossible to have any semblance of a stable government. Adding surprise elections no one knows about just sounds like a nightmare. I'd rather see settlements have no PC leaders at all than have random friend groups taking over for the lols by surprise and undoing everyone elses hard work.

It's good having the notification. It simulates your character knowing what is going on in the place they live, like they would if they actually lived there or frequenteded there and stops you from having to talk to a specific NPC every play session.

I don't see the downside to having notifications unless someone is a part of a small group trying to just sneak their way in without putting in the work, in which case, maybe you should reconsider your roleplay ambitions because that seems kind of a nasty thing to do.

Yeah. I think most of us already hate election advertising in the real world... we don't need to have this in our games as well. Candidates can certainly RP how they like to campaign... but we don't need to replace the minor OOC notice with the need for Criers in the streets hollering at everyone that there's an election going and to be sure to vote. Let them campaign. Don't require them to force it down out throats to make sure we know its happening.

The OOC message in game is just to signal to you as the player of that character that it's happening. You can interpret this as the NPCs in the game world chattering about it, "Did you hear there's an election in _______?" This really just lets you know to look further into it IC.

What is NOT ok is then signalling through OOC means to other people that an election is on. Keep advertising of this kind of IC event in the game only.

Hmm, I've come to the conclusion that the Arelith election system is a wheel of cheese encased in a rind of entrenched interest and disengagement. Elections aren't a plot, they're an ooc system.

I think the solution is to just not engage in any RP around them and ignore they exist. Mission accomplished?

TurningLeaf wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 3:28 pm I think the solution is to just not engage in any RP around them and ignore they exist. Mission accomplished?

That's what I do and it's always worked for me!

It would be cool to script NPCs to chat about an election once it actually begins.

The only alternative I can think of for having a less intrusive way of being given an OOC heads up about an election being called that doesn't result in random NPCs cluttering up our chatboxes, would be something like an "-election" command for the console that tells you either the time until the next election can be called for w/e settlement you have citizenship in, whether one can be called now, or if one is ongoing.