Arelith

Though this is dangerously close to a suggestion, the Cleric pathing and Paladin oathing occurring at other than 1st lvl is a stroke of design genius. Recommend Warlocks get the same treatment, starting at 2nd lvl or something similar. This allows for some low level buyers remorse or further patron RP/evolution, without character deletion and remake.

You become a warlock when you make a pact. This isn't the sort of thing that should be able to be changed easily.

That line of reasoning seem like it should be equally valid for Paladins and their oaths in that case. Re-levelling your entire character isn't something that is supposed to just happen at a whim in the first place.

I think a more pertinent reason for keeping pact-choice at level 1 is that it is such a core part of how Warlocks work. If you multiclass into it later, having to wait a whole level before having pact spells might not feel great to play.

Dreams wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 3:57 am You become a warlock when you make a pact. This isn't the sort of thing that should be able to be changed easily.

This is exactly why Pact feats are chosen at level 1. I don't want warlocks to switch between pacts at a whim, it doesn't feel very thematic.

The counter OPs here are valid, but I also know I'm not the only one with a long-term Warlock who predates the update who were always something else and just hemmed in by the old system. There is no chance to change this other than bothering Spyre.

Mine was mechanically an Abyssal but always RPed as an Umberlant Fathomless...to the point of wearing a Kraken helm, etc. And I know a cabal who were deep into the Star RP as well, long before such was an option. It would just be nice to be able to fix this.

That’s very confusing. Anything pre update was a bard where the pacts didn’t exist in this form at all. You would have had to explicitly choose abyssal over fathomless.

EDIT seems I totally missed that when I rebuilt my warlock.

Xerah wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:39 pm That’s very confusing. Anything pre update was a bard where the pacts didn’t exist in this form at all. You would have had to explicitly choose abyssal over fathomless.

Pacts were assigned based on alignment on transition, so fey got fey, chaotic got abyssal, lawful got infernal. You weren't asked to select a pact if your bard was transitioned to warlock.

RedGiant wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 12:24 pm The counter OPs here are valid, but I also know I'm not the only one with a long-term Warlock who predates the update who were always something else and just hemmed in by the old system. There is no chance to change this other than bothering Spyre.

Mine was mechanically an Abyssal but always RPed as an Umberlant Fathomless...to the point of wearing a Kraken helm, etc. And I know a cabal who were deep into the Star RP as well, long before such was an option. It would just be nice to be able to fix this.

DMs might also be able to fix this by adjusting your char to a different class and then back to warlock.

Ithalan wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:12 am That line of reasoning seem like it should be equally valid for Paladins and their oaths in that case. Re-levelling your entire character isn't something that is supposed to just happen at a whim in the first place.

I think a more pertinent reason for keeping pact-choice at level 1 is that it is such a core part of how Warlocks work. If you multiclass into it later, having to wait a whole level before having pact spells might not feel great to play.

well i think the argument for having pact at lvl 2 is you auto start at lvl 2 when making new character.

That being said, paladin oaths /= pacts. Paladins are paladins first and foremost before their extra layered oath niches, there is a reason why they didn't opt for oaths of different alignments. The paladin part is before the specialized oaths. A warlock is defined by having an initial pact, were a paladin's initial oaths/commitment/path of being a paladin do not need to include the additional oaths they later on take.

Its kind of like how you can redo all your warlock feats and get a bunch of pacts removed, but you cant easily change what first made you a warlock to begin with. Paladin is no different here, in that the oath paths are not a prereq to being a paladin, but a pact is for a warlock.