[Boss/Area design] Master snake cultist boss of snake halls and monster cheats
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:53 pm
Hey,
Context : was plowing through the area, glad to discover new sights and mobs. Then I stumbled unexpectedly (side entrance) on the boss area (master cultist).
Its damage output is low so I handle the minions and all to finish with the boss.
Due to the constant barrage of annoying but not overwhelming spells (acid sheath, interposing hand, locust etc), I decide that I cannot fight it on those terms as I would get shredded (cannot out damage through the acid sheat a guy that throws 2 nature's balance a round, and all that at level 15, i just don't have the hps). I decide to survive and wait out the round based buffs (mostly acid sheath). "Waiting" can be a dangerous strategy because you do not only wait the round based buffs to end, but you get bombarded by the whole spell list while you wait + if the boss had doubles in its spellbook, you have to wait again. But well, that's the choice I made due to not having breaches.
I waited, and waited and waited more, survived everything while in pain. And then it struck me: this boss does not use a spellbook, but has infini cast of powerful spells : acid sheath, nature's balance, probly locust and interposing hand, and maybe even dismissal.
That combo of spells on a boss that abides by the rules of Dnd, of the world, of the lore, I would say "can be extremely tough at the expected level, but hey, new areas are famous for their over-the-top difficulty, so I guess why not!". But infini casting of high level spells that doesn't fit a single class with no cooldowns really feels like those pnp games where the DMs just makes up rules on the fly to either increase difficulty or because he doesn't want the boss to lose for whatever reason. It leaves a poor taste in the mouth. Dnd (and nwn) monster design is vast enough in terms of possibilities without using "monster cheats" in a level 15 dungeon. Monster cheats in high epics, in my book, could still be avoided but hey, at least it's high epics so we can stretch the limits of what is feasible and what is not.
I have no doubt this boss can be taken down, by well prepared, adapted, and experienced adventurers. Yet I still find the power gap between minions and that boss to be jarringly big, but again, balancing is NOT my point here, my point is: please, do not use monster cheats to bump difficulty, it is not needed, and is more "destructive" then you would think to the player-PW relationship.
Note: if I misjudged the encounter and there is a class that can cast without cooldown 30+ nature's balance, 5+ acid sheaths, 7-8 interposing hands, and much more (mass haste, banishment, spell absorption, you name it), well then forget everything I said about "cheating monsters", and then it just comes down to pure balancing. Again, this is a level 15 dungeon.
Thanks for reading!
PS : aside from that, everything else felt nice, new, shiny, and pleasing before meeting that boss-wall.
Context : was plowing through the area, glad to discover new sights and mobs. Then I stumbled unexpectedly (side entrance) on the boss area (master cultist).
Its damage output is low so I handle the minions and all to finish with the boss.
Due to the constant barrage of annoying but not overwhelming spells (acid sheath, interposing hand, locust etc), I decide that I cannot fight it on those terms as I would get shredded (cannot out damage through the acid sheat a guy that throws 2 nature's balance a round, and all that at level 15, i just don't have the hps). I decide to survive and wait out the round based buffs (mostly acid sheath). "Waiting" can be a dangerous strategy because you do not only wait the round based buffs to end, but you get bombarded by the whole spell list while you wait + if the boss had doubles in its spellbook, you have to wait again. But well, that's the choice I made due to not having breaches.
I waited, and waited and waited more, survived everything while in pain. And then it struck me: this boss does not use a spellbook, but has infini cast of powerful spells : acid sheath, nature's balance, probly locust and interposing hand, and maybe even dismissal.
That combo of spells on a boss that abides by the rules of Dnd, of the world, of the lore, I would say "can be extremely tough at the expected level, but hey, new areas are famous for their over-the-top difficulty, so I guess why not!". But infini casting of high level spells that doesn't fit a single class with no cooldowns really feels like those pnp games where the DMs just makes up rules on the fly to either increase difficulty or because he doesn't want the boss to lose for whatever reason. It leaves a poor taste in the mouth. Dnd (and nwn) monster design is vast enough in terms of possibilities without using "monster cheats" in a level 15 dungeon. Monster cheats in high epics, in my book, could still be avoided but hey, at least it's high epics so we can stretch the limits of what is feasible and what is not.
I have no doubt this boss can be taken down, by well prepared, adapted, and experienced adventurers. Yet I still find the power gap between minions and that boss to be jarringly big, but again, balancing is NOT my point here, my point is: please, do not use monster cheats to bump difficulty, it is not needed, and is more "destructive" then you would think to the player-PW relationship.
Note: if I misjudged the encounter and there is a class that can cast without cooldown 30+ nature's balance, 5+ acid sheaths, 7-8 interposing hands, and much more (mass haste, banishment, spell absorption, you name it), well then forget everything I said about "cheating monsters", and then it just comes down to pure balancing. Again, this is a level 15 dungeon.
Thanks for reading!
PS : aside from that, everything else felt nice, new, shiny, and pleasing before meeting that boss-wall.
