Arelith

Currently gloaming are in a strange place with regards to spells, particularly Dismissal and Banishment. If you (the gloaming) cast either of these spells the following will happen.

1) Dismissal; You need to pass a will save or suffer significant (-7)? penalties to AC, Saves, 35% spell failure and skills. I'm not sure if this scales with regards to anything, but it's potentially very significant.
2) Banishment; You need to pass a will save or wake up in the fugue, you don't get banished so much as instantly killed. There's no protection from this as far as I can tell, I have absolutely banished myself to death because the range of the spell leaves you within range of the fallout from it. While this was absolutely hilarious the penalty on this spell feels pretty significant on a spell that can easily friendly fire and reach DC's of 38/39.

I'm not sure why a native outsider is suffering from these spells so heavily when compared to tieflings or aasimar, who suffer either a -1 or -2 penalty to AC / Saves / AB comparative to gloamings who might just straight up cease to exist on the spot.

Next up, gloamings and earthquakes.
Gloamings can still suffer damage from natural earthquakes, the ones you're likely to see in the UD. I'm not sure if this is intentional or an oversight, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Then, gloamings and the light. Currently the penalties for being in the light are pretty manageable if not entirely ignorable if you were really inclined that way, how much are gloamings intended to suffer in daylight? My understanding is that gloaming should respectably do their best to elude the sunlight and remain either indoors or underground during daylight hours but there's nothing really to go off and I could be entirely wrong with how I'm approaching it. Something to explain how gloamings should react to sunlight would be great as a point of reference, even if it's just something short.

Gloamings are straight up outsiders. Tieflings and aasimars (and genasi for that matter) have distant ancestors who were outsiders.

Imps suffers like gloamings. It keeps things lore-friendly.

Good Character wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:19 am Gloamings are straight up outsiders. Tieflings and aasimars (and genasi for that matter) have distant ancestors who were outsiders.

Imps suffers like gloamings. It keeps things lore-friendly.

Gloaming is a native outsider. (Whatever the heck that is).

I think dying by getting banished is a bit much. Getting sent somewhere would be cool, or a stun. I dunno.

All I could find of native outsiders was ..
"A subtype applied only to outsiders. These creatures have mortal ancestors or a strong connection to the Material Plane and can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be. Creatures with this subtype are native to the Material Plane (hence the subtype’s name). Unlike true outsiders, native outsiders need to eat and sleep."

If we're being consistent with lore friendly, all those filthy adventurers from the material plane should consequently be affected by banishment too when on the shadow plane, abyss, baator etc.

In the past Tieflings when failing a Banishment save would be sent to the Cloven Hoof iirc.

Good Character wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:19 am Gloamings are straight up outsiders. Tieflings and aasimars (and genasi for that matter) have distant ancestors who were outsiders.

Imps suffers like gloamings. It keeps things lore-friendly.

Native Outsiders do not suffer the same as a true outsider, like Imps.

Gloaming is a Native Outsider.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gloaming

This is therefore a bug and shall need addressing.

Edit:
This is not so much a bug it seems as a misunderstanding by prior developers as to the nature of Native Outsider, it will be reviewed and adjusted as such.

Glad to hear the banishment thing wasn't exactly intentional, I'd presumed with them being native outsiders something was up but I wasn't entirely sure enough to post a report.
With that said I'll cherish the memory of trying to banish a slaadi and unsummoning myself for a little while.

Uh. Another thing I've noticed on my gloamy, but not sure if it's related to the race. Not getting it on other characters and not up to date with all the piety changes but ...

When my gloamy interacts with plants they get the 'you tend to this blahblah encourage bloom' text, which normally only my nature inclinded characters have gotten (druids, etc).

Worshipping Selune and Illmater atm, in case that has anything to do with it.

Not sure if bug, worship related, or if gloamings ecosystem service is as pollinator. Go moth go.

Hazard wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:50 am Uh. Another thing I've noticed on my gloamy, but not sure if it's related to the race. Not getting it on other characters and not up to date with all the piety changes but ...

When my gloamy interacts with plants they get the 'you tend to this blahblah encourage bloom' text, which normally only my nature inclinded characters have gotten (druids, etc).

Worshipping Selune and Illmater atm, in case that has anything to do with it.

That's probably related to a ritual having been performed at the area.

Kalopsia wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:51 am

Hazard wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:50 am Uh. Another thing I've noticed on my gloamy, but not sure if it's related to the race. Not getting it on other characters and not up to date with all the piety changes but ...

When my gloamy interacts with plants they get the 'you tend to this blahblah encourage bloom' text, which normally only my nature inclinded characters have gotten (druids, etc).

Worshipping Selune and Illmater atm, in case that has anything to do with it.

That's probably related to a ritual having been performed at the area.

Ah. Right. Rituals. Derp. Thanks. My bad.

It seems that the shadow summons have some issues when used by a gloaming character. The other day in the Hub a gloaming used the spell and it generated three shadows that were of human size and also naked.

I suspect that the size issue may be harder to address, without perhaps giving gloamings a non-human model, as I recall shadowdancer shadows suffered of something similar. The undressed appearance on the other hand seemed something new.

Itikar wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:20 pm It seems that the shadow summons have some issues when used by a gloaming character. The other day in the Hub a gloaming used the spell and it generated three shadows that were of human size and also naked.

I suspect that the size issue may be harder to address, without perhaps giving gloamings a non-human model, as I recall shadowdancer shadows suffered of something similar. The undressed appearance on the other hand seemed something new.

Does this only happen to gloamings or also other races? And does it always happen?

Kalopsia wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:40 pm

Itikar wrote: Wed Aug 17, 2022 2:20 pm It seems that the shadow summons have some issues when used by a gloaming character. The other day in the Hub a gloaming used the spell and it generated three shadows that were of human size and also naked.

I suspect that the size issue may be harder to address, without perhaps giving gloamings a non-human model, as I recall shadowdancer shadows suffered of something similar. The undressed appearance on the other hand seemed something new.

Does this only happen to gloamings or also other races? And does it always happen?

I've seen another gloaming summon shadows that weren't naked, but WERE human size.

I can fix the size issue, it's likely the script just isn't reading the current creature scale.

The SD shadow is correct height

Um. Maybe not the right place for it, but I'm gonna do it.
Can gloamings get a higher lore check or something to recognise what they are? I thought it just said 'Outsider' or something.

I'm encountering a lot of "Hi, Gloaming!" type RP, from strangers.. despite being fully covered, and all that. No bluff, sure, but I thought gloaming were pretty rare lore-wise and that not everyone would know what they are let alone how to identify one by height and eyes alone.

Suddenly it seems everyone knows what gloaming are, and can recite the wiki article by heart in character.

Similar(ish) issue with gloamings using the ESF Illusion ability to copy another creature, it glues their wings to the model. Funny, but I don't expect intentional.

Not sure how lore-friendly it is, and white does make sense, but ..

Could the Gloaming glow/light racial be affected by the -light colour commands, too? It would just look really pretty and help match outfits and stuff.

Hazard wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:29 am Not sure how lore-friendly it is, and white does make sense, but ..

Could the Gloaming glow/light racial be affected by the -light colour commands, too? It would just look really pretty and help match outfits and stuff.

Pretty sure the lore doesn't support it, so I don't think it should be done :)

However, I'll increase the lore DC to identify their subrace some and fix the reported issues with Summon Shadow and Project Image.

Kalopsia wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:24 pm

Hazard wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:29 am Not sure how lore-friendly it is, and white does make sense, but ..

Could the Gloaming glow/light racial be affected by the -light colour commands, too? It would just look really pretty and help match outfits and stuff.

Pretty sure the lore doesn't support it, so I don't think it should be done

However, I'll increase the lore DC to identify their subrace some and fix the reported issues with Summon Shadow and Project Image.

Fair enough on the lights xD Was a stretch.

Excited to hear the other stuff. Wooo.

Sincra wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:36 am

Good Character wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:19 am Gloamings are straight up outsiders. Tieflings and aasimars (and genasi for that matter) have distant ancestors who were outsiders.

Imps suffers like gloamings. It keeps things lore-friendly.

Native Outsiders do not suffer the same as a true outsider, like Imps.

Gloaming is a Native Outsider.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Gloaming

This is therefore a bug and shall need addressing.

Edit:
This is not so much a bug it seems as a misunderstanding by prior developers as to the nature of Native Outsider, it will be reviewed and adjusted as such.

Rakshasa and Fey'ri are also supposed to be Native Outsiders, but I believe are treated as outsiders when it comes to the same spells.