Arelith

Ive got a suggestion, one I think is pretty decent. I obviously wont say what it is here because this isnt the suggestion box, but the suggestion box is locked.. So I suppose I simply must ask, what do I do with my great and amazing suggestion? Do I write a ticket? Do I feel like an Snuggybear and bother a contributor on the discord? Do I wait for an announcement for when the box unlocks and hope I can get to a computer in the time it is?

What can I do as a member of the community to suggest things when I have no where to suggest them?

You will have to wait till the suggestion box opens, we aren't likely to accept public suggestions, especially when directed at a contributor.

As for the inevitable, when will it open?
That's down to when Irongron feels like it's time to wipe the existing unfinished lot or we process enough it's viable.

The suggestion box should be always open, and ideally there should be a prioritization process done by devs/admins/mods/whatever that differentiates really good (or short and simple to implement) suggestions from the rest of the pile that takes up all the space and makes the suggestion box close 99% of the year.

Gonna be honest the pile of existing ones terrifies me.

You put it in the feedback section and pretend it's not a suggestion, like everyone else.

AstralUniverse wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:28 am The suggestion box should be always open, and ideally there should be a prioritization process done by devs/admins/mods/whatever that differentiates really good (or short and simple to implement) suggestions from the rest of the pile that takes up all the space and makes the suggestion box close 99% of the year.

Sounds like an excellent way to run the backlog of a digital development team.

Not really a great way to run the workload of volunteers, who just tend to quit when you tell them what they should and shouldn't be working on in their unpaid free time.

It'd be nice if the suggestion box was open, but I just took a quick look and it looks like we have two hundred and fifty things outstanding, and that really is an awful lot of work...

Sincra wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 11:29 am Gonna be honest the pile of existing ones terrifies me.

It's things like *this*.

If I was a dev I wouldnt even know from which angle to look this pile. The suggestion box either shouldnt exist at all and we'll make feedback threads, or it should be moderated so it remains open most of the year. Right now there are many good suggestions piling dust there, that no one is going to suggest again for a while because it's already in the box, and devs dont necessarily even know about them.

JustMonika wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:56 pm Not really a great way to run the workload of volunteers, who just tend to quit when you tell them what they should and shouldn't be working on in their unpaid free time.

I dont mean that they should be told what to work on but they should have a clearer picture of what suggestions to take more or less seriously based on it's importance and how possible it is to code, and THEN work on whatever they want out of that standpoint. That would be great.

The people with the best idea of how possible these suggestions are to code, is very much likely to be our dev team themselves.
As for 'Importance' - It's not relevent.
If every single player wants something really badly, but no-one wants to code it - It won't get coded.
If something is really fun and easy to code, and like 2 people want it a little bit, it'll probably get done really quickly.

All some sort of voting system would do is make people more upset when our volunteer team didn't do what they felt was important.

I think it would be beneficial to either have a new section opened up (or loosen the restrictions on the feedback section to allow for it), where people can post "suggestions" but not for the purpose of being approved and implemented, but rather brainstorming, discussion, and theory crafting with the suggestion as the focus. This is naturally what most people want to do when posting in the feedback section, because giving feedback with attached solutions (a suggestion) is normal.

Just a place we can post ideas and talk about them with each other, why it would or wouldn't work, how it could be made to work, stuff like that.

I'm aware this itself is a suggestion lol.

The forums are just a bad place for feedback in general. When feedback is given, who is the audience? The devs? The DMs? The other players? Half the time it seems like posters argue against feedback because they're trying to shout down feedback they don't agree with. Why the shouting? Because they fear the devs being swayed by someone they don't agree with.

Maybe feedback should be private unless a dev opens it up for the playerbase to respond. Sort of like how suggestions are already meant to be only dev-replied. Having suggestions (when they were open) readable already created the infamous feedback thread that's arguing against an unanswered suggestion thread.

Something like Mantis or Jira would give some of the structure that locking and unlocking the suggestion board is trying to do. Or maybe a stackoverflow type where there's a clear answer that's accepted by a dev and the culture accepts that the answer can be edited and updated.

It'd be nice if the suggestion box was open, but I just took a quick look and it looks like we have two hundred and fifty things outstanding, and that really is an awful lot of work...

Actually the 250 suggestions arn't 'approved' by any of the admin team, so we can mostly ignore those.

The 'approved' area is the one to pay more attention too, imo, and we have been slowly working through those. We're down to 199 now. And I'm hoping - soon - to collar some Devs and see if any of them have been already completed, or as it turns out are no longer relevent, or indeed cannot be completed. Or indeed, to see if any want to work on them now! So that number may drop again.

There are a lot of Feedback threads at the moment that are really suggestions. Understand that the Suggestion Box is locked at the moment, and ideally you should wait until it is unlocked to write an actual suggestion.

If you want to throw out an idea in Feedback to refine it or whatever, sure, but understand unless a DEV creates a thread specifically for feedback (I.E. there has been one both for deities and disguise by one), then it is not a suggestion that is going to be heard and it will very likely ignored.

If you're looking to get the community's point, that is fine. If you're looking for implementation though, you should wait.

Summary:

Feedback = Brainstorming of improvements with community members, or a review of current systems, such as a review of your experience with the writ system, or adventuring through a specific dungeon.

Suggestions: Proposal of these improvements to DEVs.

From the pinned topic on the definition of feedback vs suggestion. Feedback already is for community discussion.

I have just commented on 21 complete or now denied items, bringing pending down to 178

Sincra wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:29 am I have just commented on 21 complete or now denied items, bringing pending down to 178

Well done Sir!

Sincra wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:29 am I have just commented on 21 complete or now denied items, bringing pending down to 178

That's great to hear, thank you!

To be transparent on the intentions with the Suggestion Box.

From now until January 1st, the team will review all approved / pending approved suggests - they will be reassessed as to whether they are not possible, moved to their respective field (approved / rejected). We will try to work through some as best we can.

As of January 1st, we will open the suggestion box and look at managing it in an open state - we can move topics to approved and rejected as we go.

This is a large undertaking though. So bear with us.