Arelith

I hope this isn't a controversial take, but our playerlist is inundated with disguised names that are intended to meme something to the player OOC. A good example of this is "Swoleathan Rigsby". Clearly the character is trying to be humorous with the name and "joke" in game about using the disguise feature to meme with their friends.

I understand the desire to have funny moments in game with your friends, but know that other players witness this behavior and either expect this is the norm of roleplay on arelith or are completely taken out of the immersive environment.

Please be considerate to your fellow players by using the systems as their intended to be used. We can have humor in this game without OOC signaling memes to our friends. Save that for discord.

This is probably the signature of Arelith at this point and something I most often have to assure roleplayers I introduce to the server isn't representative of all players.

It's also very common to see shop names actively referencing real life orgs or memes.

I've just sort of had to accept it's the norm we have now.

I don't see it as a huge problem and we have parties, costume events and shows in our theatres where that sort of thing could easily make sense. It's a case by case thing.

But maybe using -dissaportal when you do a joke disguise should be recommended behavior so it's not on the portal page.

Eyeliner wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 5:12 am

I don't see it as a huge problem and we have parties, costume events and shows in our theatres where that sort of thing could easily make sense. It's a case by case thing.

But maybe using -dissaportal when you do a joke disguise should be recommended behavior so it's not on the portal page.

I thought it was pretty clear that the complaint isn't about disguises in context of theatre plays and events, but rather milling about in public with a meme floating over one's head for OOC funnies. Absolutely, joke disguises have a place in costume parties or plays, but I don't think they belong as a commonplace occurrence outside of those circumstances.

As an aside, I notice this a lot with people a massive group for whatever reason - whether it's prowling around for PvP or just memeing on a ship (which also possesses a meme name in theme with their disguise memes).

There's a difference between 'joke disguise' - ie, one that would be well within the bounds of the IC world we inhabit - and 'meme disguise', whereby it's a meme reference, only funny OOC, or leans too much on the fourth wall.

"Doing a joke disguise" really is doing some heavy lifting here - do you mean abusing the disguise system, which should only be used for pretending to be someone you're not and should be fully in character? Or occupying a role (say, in a play)? Because those are very different.

This is a problem that myself and other developers have noted and addressed with a recent update to the IG disguise readout and the disguise wiki - I would ask that it is reviewed. Using the disguise system for fourth wall leaning jokes, memes and internet slang is a misuse of the disguise system and detrimental to the server setting and immersion.
https://wiki.nwnarelith.com/Disguise#Forbidden

Let me be clear: IC costume events, theatres and shows are not being targeted and are an appropriate use of the system. I think players know what the difference is with situational context of how they're making use of the system, or the names that are being chosen for disguise.

Please be considerate to your fellow player, and use your judgement. If it's an ooc meme or reference, for example disguising yourself as 'Gnicki Gnomaj', or 'Hawk Tu'ah Warrior', this is not how the disguise system was intended to be used. Please do not do this.

If you see the disguise system being abused like this, please report it. This is not a standard that we should have to accept for the server and its atmosphere.

This stuff goes hand in hand with setting integrity. Silly meme character names also seem to be more common these days. Someone is on a character called Toxic Exgirlfriend right now.

why don't we go after meme names while we're at it, too

Rubricae wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 11:10 pm

why don't we go after meme names while we're at it, too

But my Yuan-ti, Hugh Mann, did nothing wrong!

Ork wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 3:39 am

I hope this isn't a controversial take, but our playerlist is inundated with disguised names that are intended to meme something to the player OOC. A good example of this is "Swoleathan Rigsby". Clearly the character is trying to be humorous with the name and "joke" in game about using the disguise feature to meme with their friends.

I understand the desire to have funny moments in game with your friends, but know that other players witness this behavior and either expect this is the norm of roleplay on arelith or are completely taken out of the immersive environment.

Please be considerate to your fellow players by using the systems as their intended to be used. We can have humor in this game without OOC signaling memes to our friends. Save that for discord.

I also feel like maybe it's possible there is context you aren't aware of that's leading to such things. There might be IC reasons for people doing certain things that maybe you aren't privy to. Rather than making assumptions and getting upset over a name in a player list, consider that maybe you aren't aware of what this is about and assuming bad intentions.

"Grumpy Cat"
"Hawk Tu'ah"
"Cas'hme Ou'ssid'e Ho'wboud'at"
Those are all meme disguises.

Someone pretending they're someone else or saying a silly name and disguising as that name for a couple minutes harms nobody. Your example is also of a twist on a very prominent, active and well known character. How is that 'memeing' rather than friends being jokey with one another?
Please let characters have fun with one another without immediately calling it a meme.

In this case, Johnathan Rigsby paid a bunch of people to disguise as him. Poorly. In fact this was asked ICly. So a bunch of people put on bad Johnathan Rigsby costumes and walked around doing caricatures of him. I was Swoleathan Rigsby and my disguise description was "This is obviously not Johnathan Rigsby. It's Ramas, with an eye patch doing a poor impersonation of the man."

So not only was it IC, it was more akin to a costume, and wasn't just OOC jokes or a meme. So I sort of find it wierd that you're taking this to the forums and accusing me and others of doing something for OOC reasons when you don't know what's actually happening. Maybe ask instead first?

Memento Mori wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 5:23 am

Eyeliner wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 5:12 am

I don't see it as a huge problem and we have parties, costume events and shows in our theatres where that sort of thing could easily make sense. It's a case by case thing.

But maybe using -dissaportal when you do a joke disguise should be recommended behavior so it's not on the portal page.

I thought it was pretty clear that the complaint isn't about disguises in context of theatre plays and events, but rather milling about in public with a meme floating over one's head for OOC funnies. Absolutely, joke disguises have a place in costume parties or plays, but I don't think they belong as a commonplace occurrence outside of those circumstances.

I don't see how it's clear at all, it's a general complaint that doesn't exclude specific situations and I assumed it's also complaining about the names showing up on the player list or astrolabe. If there is going to be a rule about meme names it needs to specify the situations where it's okay and when it's not, especially if we're worried about newbies who don't know the server culture.

Eyeliner wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 1:53 am

Memento Mori wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 5:23 am

Eyeliner wrote: Thu Dec 05, 2024 5:12 am

I don't see it as a huge problem and we have parties, costume events and shows in our theatres where that sort of thing could easily make sense. It's a case by case thing.

But maybe using -dissaportal when you do a joke disguise should be recommended behavior so it's not on the portal page.

I thought it was pretty clear that the complaint isn't about disguises in context of theatre plays and events, but rather milling about in public with a meme floating over one's head for OOC funnies. Absolutely, joke disguises have a place in costume parties or plays, but I don't think they belong as a commonplace occurrence outside of those circumstances.

I don't see how it's clear at all, it's a general complaint that doesn't exclude specific situations and I assumed it's also complaining about the names showing up on the player list or astrolabe. If there is going to be a rule about meme names it needs to specify the situations where it's okay and when it's not, especially if we're worried about newbies who don't know the server culture.

There was always a rule about meme names, but it was not stated explicitly. It went with the Roleplay is Required rule. The wording with that rule if very clear. You do not make references to internet slang or real life places, people and events. This is one of the many rules everyone agrees to when a character is made on the Arelith server.

The only place a meme name would be okay is on the PGCC, because it's an OOC server. There shouldn't be any other situation on the IC Arelith server that an internet slang reference or meme should be used, whether naming yourself, using the disguise system, or regular roleplay. I trust people playing on Arelith should be able to use their judgement appropriately when it comes to following what's stated within the rules. Even if you're changing into a meme disguise name for a few minutes for a laugh with your friends, consider that there's a good chance that other players who check the playerlist menu on the server you share will see the disguise. It's actually how I personally see a majority of the times that the disguise system is misused.

I guess the second way I could also phrase this is if a DM questioned you about the disguise you were using. If you can't really explain a reason IC for why your character is calling themselves something without going into explaining an ooc meme or joke online, then you probably shouldn't be using that disguise.

I would encourage everyone to approach the DM team if they need clarity on the rules, or advice if you're uncertain about how the disguise system should be used. They are more than happy to help. If you see people with character names that do not follow the rules, please report. The DMs typically act very swiftly to correct this behaviour.

I guess it is a controversial take. If you're on a boat with your buds and you must meme that's not as harmful, but to stand around Andunor Hub and meme with clearly non-IC names just sucks the immersion elements out of this game. Please be considerate that if you have to do it, at least do it in private.

Honestly, I get the impression that the disguise rules are just not enforced. We've got "Adventurer" as one character's permanent disguise for RL months now. You can tell there's surfacers in the UD (and sometimes vice versa) doing a runic or raid because there's "Hooded Knight" "Red Knight" "Hedge Mage" "Wandering Knight" etc. in the player list all of a sudden.

Ork wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:24 am

I guess it is a controversial take. If you're on a boat with your buds and you must meme that's not as harmful, but to stand around Andunor Hub and meme with clearly non-IC names just sucks the immersion elements out of this game. Please be considerate that if you have to do it, at least do it in private.

I don't think it is, or SHOULD be a controversial take, Ork. I find myself agreeing with you absolutely on this.

Meme-y disguises are lame and sucks the immersion right out of the scene.

For me, disguises are pretty simple:

(1) If it's a 1-shot, then it can be a descriptor. This is a disguise my PC hasn't really put any thought into. If someone asks for a name, they are making it up on the spot. This is by far a more rare scenario for me, I don't think I've ever really even done it recently.

(2) If I'm in it for more than an IRL day, it has a name. And it's name is what the character calls itself. If your character wouldn't call themselves it IC, it's probably not a great name choice.

I think this is another case where quotation marks not existing would actually solve the issue. Imagine your quotation marks didn't exist. Would the name be ok?
If you are using #1 (which should be a rarer case IMO), would it be a name you'd like to see on DM spawns during an event?

Ork wrote: Fri Dec 06, 2024 6:24 am

I guess it is a controversial take. If you're on a boat with your buds and you must meme that's not as harmful, but to stand around Andunor Hub and meme with clearly non-IC names just sucks the immersion elements out of this game. Please be considerate that if you have to do it, at least do it in private.

Quoting from someone above "In this case, Johnathan Rigsby paid a bunch of people to disguise as him. Poorly. In fact this was asked ICly. So a bunch of people put on bad Johnathan Rigsby costumes and walked around doing caricatures of him. I was Swoleathan Rigsby and my disguise description was "This is obviously not Johnathan Rigsby. It's Ramas, with an eye patch doing a poor impersonation of the man."

So not only was it IC, it was more akin to a costume, and wasn't just OOC jokes or a meme. So I sort of find it wierd that you're taking this to the forums and accusing me and others of doing something for OOC reasons when you don't know what's actually happening. Maybe ask instead first?"

It was an ic spontaneous event, imagine people having the audacity to rp in the hub, instead of just leaning quietly against the wall

This conversation started in staff, and was a conversation in various circles, long before people started disguising en masse as Johnathan Rigsby. Please do not discount the actual problem out of offense for one instance that can be justified.

Meme disguise names have been an issue in Andunor with much more traction for several months now, if not the last year.

Eira wrote: Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:32 am

This conversation started in staff, and was a conversation in various circles, long before people started disguising en masse as Johnathan Rigsby. Please do not discount the actual problem out of offense for one instance that can be justified.

Meme disguise names have been an issue in Andunor with much more traction for several months now, if not the last year.

I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist. But the very specific instance given as an example of this issue is one which in fact isn't.

Are we honestly defending the name "swoleathan" as anything other than a meme? The individual could've easily disguised as "Johnathan" and I would most certainly have 0 problem with that.

What is noticeable is it isn't just "swoleathan", but it was a recent example. There have been a lot of disguise name misuse and usually I don't mind but it has been so pervasive that it can't be avoided.

I don't think this is a grave sin, but it's not considerate to others that we're surrounded by non-rp elements. Again, if you want to do that in private go for it - but the Hub?

I still find it disrespectful when you choose to call me out in a public forum rather than either talking to me about it as a player, asking why as a player, or just reporting it.

But you wanted to bring it here for everyone except the person you take issue with? So... why? What purpose does this serve other than to become a problem to other players who were having fun and enjoying themselves for a perfectly IC thing? If you want to talk about being respectful to other players and their experience you've sort of failed on that part yourself?

There were many meme names behind the "Johnathan Rigsby" naming spree, and I chose one that was particularly salient to the post. I didn't out you, you did.

I've already outlined why I feel it is a problem for players to, in my opinion, misuse the disguise feature. I brought this to the public sphere to raise an awareness to the effect I have experienced when players use meme names, and to see if people either agreed or disagreed with the sentiment.

While not providing any of the context including the IC reasoning behind it, and pushing immediately towards it needing to be due to an OOC reason.