Arelith

1. What are some of the skills or feats that you wish to see the Packages and Recommend Button would (not) suggest?
2. Do you think the descriptions of the Packages can be improved?
3. Also, do you have your own recommendations on a package for a class that the initial release may be lacking?

Please use the following Template:

Class:
Package Name:
Ability Score:
Requirements
Feat:
Skill:
Spell:
Specifics:
Note:
Comment:

Example

Class: Fighter
Package Name: Dual-Wield
Ability Score: Strength
Requirements: 13 Dex, 13 Int
Feat: Blind Fight, Expertise, Ambidexterity, (Improved) Two-Weapon Fighting
Skill: Discipline, Lore
Spell: Does not apply
Specifics: This build focuses on dual-wielding weapons
Note: This package does not recommend Weapon Focus on level up, players will need to take the Weapon Focus feats manually
Comment:

Basic Caster Class Packages: (Cleric, Spellsword, Wizard, Sorcerer, Shaman, Druid, and Invoker)

• Change the Character Creation feats suggestion from Expertise and Power Attack to Extended Spells and Spell Focus: Conjuration
• Add Concentration to recommended Skill list

Do packages affect the "recommend" button or is it only the 1st level?

Kenji wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:25 am

Basic Caster Class Packages: (Cleric, Spellsword, Wizard, Sorcerer, Shaman, Druid, and Invoker)

• Change the Character Creation feats suggestion from Expertise and Power Attack to Extended Spells and Spell Focus: Conjuration
• Add Concentration to recommended Skill list

Thats great except the SF Conj part and spellswords.

Algol wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 11:34 am

Do packages affect the "recommend" button or is it only the 1st level?

Yes, package affects the recommend buttons for all the levels when taking that specific class.

TheDoctor wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 12:52 pm

Kenji wrote: Thu Feb 06, 2025 2:25 am

Basic Caster Class Packages: (Cleric, Spellsword, Wizard, Sorcerer, Shaman, Druid, and Invoker)

• Change the Character Creation feats suggestion from Expertise and Power Attack to Extended Spells and Spell Focus: Conjuration
• Add Concentration to recommended Skill list

Thats great except the SF Conj part and spellswords.

I'll probably have Spellswords grouped up with other casting APR based classes such as Paladin, Harbinger, Battle Cleric/FvS, Battle Shaman, or (to an extent) Ranger in terms of feat investment: weapon focus, improved crit, blind fight, (G)SF/AD: abjuration, etc.

But their recommended skill selection would be a special one that puts points in Spellcraft, Concentration, Discipline, Lore.

Speaking of which, do any Bard players invest in Concentration? Or do any of you forgo it? If you can, can you list out the builds/archetypes of bards that would take Concentration vs the ones that would not?

Kenji you can kinda shove all melee classes into the same list tbh, like in the list I gave you a while ago which idk if you used or not but I hope it helped in some way. Like.. you dont really need to separate melee casters from melee none casters because the lack of spellbook will disqualify the mundanes from spell focus anyway, and melee comabtant is melee combatant anyway, with same prio feats.

I decided to split them all up into distinct categories instead of one because, in practice, it was more nuanced in how each archetype prefer to take certain feats over another at first.

It was also important to take into consideration on which class would likely take the very first feats (to avoid level 1 choice regrets down the line) based on the archetype they're going for.

For example, a battle caster would likely take Extend Spell and Blind Fight (and then somewhere down the line, Spell Focus: Transmutation), where a Ranger technically has access to those but would likely never take those except Blind Fight.

Some may choose to take Weapon Focus at level 1, but the safest bet is to choose Blind Fight for any physical attack character for easier future decision making. Those that wish to build into weapon master would likely prioritize dodge, mobility, and weapon focus to qualify for WM as soon as possible over Blind Fight, however.

Nah I dont think so at all. All these melee classes, if they have 13+ int, should take expertise on level 1. If it's human, then expertise and blind fight, or expertise and improved expertise. If they dont have 13+ int and they're human, then it might become a tad bit tricky because the next available feat on the list is probably weapon focus but that issue is also homogenous among all of these classes anyway so it really doesnt matter for lvl 1 all that much. In fact, they probably cant take extend spell on level 1 because they need to have spells in their spellbook first, talking about ranger, harbinger, paladin... high bab casters I mean. Their list of prio doesnt contradict the rest of the high bab classes at all, because they mostly want the same stuff, and where they differ it is aligned with feat availibility anyway.

I'm separating them into different package files and categories.

But! I would love some helping hands in adding new packages and relevant .2da files while I focus on the Monk Rework and other related projects. If you think you can contribute, feel free to inquire Irongron or other admins and become a code contributor. Help shape the Packages and feat recommendation into what you feel should be right.

Current Planned Packages that will become available over time

• Mundane APR: Sword and Board / Twohanded / Dual-wield / Weapon Master / Archery / Sharpshooter / Throwing
• Elementalist: Water / Fire / Air / Earth (EDR)
• Cleric: Cloistered / Str Div Warpriest / Dex Seeker / Healer / Defiler / Evangelist / Vanilla Cleric
• Spellsword: Pathless / Abjurant Champion / Marauder
• Wizard: Generalist / Specialist (All Schools) / Wild Mage / Shadow Mage
• Sorcerer: Divine / EDR
• Monk: Dex Unarmed / Str Unarmed / Dex WM / Str WM / Crafter
• Druid: Totem / Caster / Summoner / Shapeshifter
• Favored Soul: Caster / Battle
• Shaman: Caster / Battle
• Paladin: Oath of Inquisition / Ancient / Perseverance / Vengeance / Reckoning
• Warlock: Str Hideous Blow / Dex Blaster / Cha Blaster / Con Summoner
• Commoner: Crafter (Int) / Survivor (Con) / Laborer (Str)

Each has a Placeholder Package in place, allowing the recommended ability scores, feats, spells, and skills to be adjusted in the future based on feedback.

I see on the list above current planned packages for them, but I'll report this anyway:
I noticed for specialist wizards that ban conjuration, the recommend button was still recommending conjuration spell focus, and I if I recall correctly planar conduit (which they can't cast).

Class: Warlock
Package Name: Warlock
Ability Score: Going for HBlow
Requirements
Feat:
Skill:
Spell:
Specifics:
Note:
Comment: The actual package doesn't give you any level 1 feats. No pact, no feat at all. It's kind of funny.

It's a placeholder package, they will all be updated Soon™

4 Warlock packages—brought to you by Kalopsia, AstralUniverse, et al.