Arelith

Is there any upkeep to keep slaves?

If not, why is there not? As it is, without chainbreakers and no counter measures, The whole server can technically icly become enslaved. Seeing that we have to pay upkeep on the surface to pariah and exile enemies of the settlements, I think there should be an upkeep for the slaves if there isn't. Since I requested new tools for the surface to use to counter the enslavement raids, non been implemented as it is often monster races doing the raids, there need to be some other way of handling this.

Enslavement still requires OOC consent and permission. Nobody can force you into slavery RP. And if anyone is suggesting they can, report it.

But Will It Blend wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 7:02 pm

Enslavement still requires OOC consent and permission. Nobody can force you into slavery RP. And if anyone is suggesting they can, report it.

Still, I believe majority of player or at least a very high percentage agree to it out of "roleplayers sportsmanship". Technically, the UD and Sibayad can turn the whole surface into an empty husk if they enslave everyone in theory. No upkeep, no cost, one time payment if someone want to buy them but they will all still be held by the NPC that owns them all in practice.

The Surface cannot afford exiling every single person in an raid, there is to high upkeeps. But the enslaving settlements can if they get an "yes" do that to every single person if they capture someone in an raid. So I believe there should be upkeeps to keep slaves and im suprised there isn't.

I have brought up an suggestion to give the surface tools to handle failed raids somehow and I been told there is considerations how to do this. As it is now, there is no equal footing or counter measures to oppose collaring.

LurkingShadow wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 8:09 pm

As it is now, there is no equal footing or counter measures to oppose collaring.

As the post above said. You cannot collar anyone, you bring them to an NPC and they get the full list of terms and conditions before being asked if they want to be a slave or just a prisoner.

The prisoner status can be removed by a ton of ways, even all skillchecks failing for a much lower sum than what the slave collars cost.

It may seem odd, but all slaves at some point clicked the "I wanna be slave" button. You can even reach out to DMs to have it removed should the RP be uncomfy.

LurkingShadow wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 8:09 pm

I have brought up an suggestion to give the surface tools to handle failed raids somehow and I been told there is considerations how to do this. As it is now, there is no equal footing or counter measures to oppose collaring.

I wonder if there would be something such as more mechanical mage cuffs, a shock collar (when someone does it moves to cast a spell or attack someone it paralyzes them).

Cnaym wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 8:31 am

LurkingShadow wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 8:09 pm

As it is now, there is no equal footing or counter measures to oppose collaring.

As the post above said. You cannot collar anyone, you bring them to an NPC and they get the full list of terms and conditions before being asked if they want to be a slave or just a prisoner.

The prisoner status can be removed by a ton of ways, even all skillchecks failing for a much lower sum than what the slave collars cost.

It may seem odd, but all slaves at some point clicked the "I wanna be slave" button. You can even reach out to DMs to have it removed should the RP be uncomfy.

I do not see why everyone say "If player consent". That is not the point Im making. As I see it, most people agree to it out of "Sportsmanship". The mechanic is still lacking an "IC" countermeasure of equal level.

Ruzuke wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 1:08 pm

LurkingShadow wrote: Mon May 19, 2025 8:09 pm

I have brought up an suggestion to give the surface tools to handle failed raids somehow and I been told there is considerations how to do this. As it is now, there is no equal footing or counter measures to oppose collaring.

I wonder if there would be something such as more mechanical mage cuffs, a shock collar (when someone does it moves to cast a spell or attack someone it paralyzes them).

Well, that be something.

I mean, the system has existed for over a decade now, and I don't believe we've ever had the issue of complete depopulation of the surface due to Underdark Raids and slaving. Nothing like that in fact. Nothing close to like that. So I'm not sure it's really an issue?

The slavery system doesn't need more counters because it isn't a competitive system.

You opt into slavery when you want to be a slave.

You roleplay with a chainbreaker when you want to stop roleplaying a slave.

It's facilitating a narrative, nothing else.

I don't think slaves need upkeep.

However, I think that people who are 10 rpr or otherwise new, should not be making slave characters.

The GrumpyCat wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 7:31 pm

I mean, the system has existed for over a decade now, and I don't believe we've ever had the issue of complete depopulation of the surface due to Underdark Raids and slaving. Nothing like that in fact. Nothing close to like that. So I'm not sure it's really an issue?

The chance exists that it can happen. It is an extreme case. I still, as I said before, think there need to be something for the surface to use against raiders being captured.

Eira wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 9:02 pm

I don't think slaves need upkeep.

However, I think that people who are 10 rpr or otherwise new, should not be making slave characters.

If slaves don't need upkeep, why should the exile and pariah system be so expensive? There need to be some kind of measure for us surface settlement leaders and officials to use. As it is now, the systems are not aligned very well and if non outcast, surface races even assist the monster races. We cannot reasonably exile or pariah large groups without bankrupting the settlements. Meanwhile, slavery historically was never something that was "free", food,living space and the security needed for slaves was expensive, slave uprisings been more common than we imagine also through the thousands of years of slavery or similar systems. This is fantasy and not real life, no, but still. Sibayad and Andunor should have to pay for slaves one way or another.

I would raise it even higher, 30 rpr. I still think its an odd system that I would not implement myself but this is my personal opinion.

EDIT: And I understand it is not a competitive system. But it is still ooc mechanics behind it all and this is a game that need to be balanced to be some what even. I do not see where this is ever even in the time needed to invest in costly exiles and pariah when slavery is a one time cost to buy one. Chainbreakers or not.

But well, I do understand its more complex than it looks from the outside and hard to change. I just would like a bit of tiny change. Either way! An healthy discussion to get other perspectives is always nice also. I might not like all parts of the slave system but if people enjoy it and it been here for long, I respect that! Im just another player who like to discuss things.

LurkingShadow wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 9:30 am

If slaves don't need upkeep, why should the exile and pariah system be so expensive?

I don't understand the connection you're making here. These two systems are entirely separate and aren't related to each other. This is like asking "if the radiant heart has no upkeep for its members, why is exile expensive?" Unless I'm missing something because I'm on zero coffee?

silverpheonix wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 12:04 pm

LurkingShadow wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 9:30 am

If slaves don't need upkeep, why should the exile and pariah system be so expensive?

I don't understand the connection you're making here. These two systems are entirely separate and aren't related to each other. This is like asking "if the radiant heart has no upkeep for its members, why is exile expensive?" Unless I'm missing something because I'm on zero coffee?

I see it as the tools settlements have. Some got slavery, some have pariah and exiles. The latter is expensive. Slavery is not. Which in reality, it should be. There should be an upkeep to have slaves in an settlement in my opinion.

Sibayad has slavery but it's not tied to the settlement itself. It's just there.

Andunor isn't a settlement.

There are issues with the slavery system but I don't think this suggestion nor its basis of concern is close to identifying and addressing them.

Inordinate wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 4:28 pm

Sibayad has slavery but it's not tied to the settlement itself. It's just there.

Andunor isn't a settlement.

There are issues with the slavery system but I don't think this suggestion nor its basis of concern is close to identifying and addressing them.

What do you think is an solution?

Well, there has been talk of putting in some sort of other, similar ic 'punishment' as Slavery in surface settlments. Forced labor for example, where someone is collared until they collect a certain amount of resources. Surfdom I think was breifly played around a bit. It's an interesting idea, that might provide more interesting ways for surface settlments to punish pcs that isn't jail, exile, ect. Perhaps that would serve as a... balencer?

Again, I'll add personally I'm not sure that this is really a problem? But I will say that I like the idea of giving surface settlments another, more interesting punishment tool on it's own merits. Though it may come with it's own strictures.

While I understand the desire to have tools to remove large groups, the reality is... that's not really what RP is about? If you have people that are antagonists, simply saying 'You're not allowed to play in our sandbox' isn't fun for both sides. Honestly, try reaching out and talking to the people who are on the other side.

If you feel like raids are being excessive, just talk. See if that helps. If people are being unfair or hostile or forgetting it's a game, report anything that isn't acceptable behaviour.

The GrumpyCat wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 12:13 am

Well, there has been talk of putting in some sort of other, similar ic 'punishment' as Slavery in surface settlments. Forced labor for example, where someone is collared until they collect a certain amount of resources. Surfdom I think was breifly played around a bit. It's an interesting idea, that might provide more interesting ways for surface settlments to punish pcs that isn't jail, exile, ect. Perhaps that would serve as a... balencer?

Again, I'll add personally I'm not sure that this is really a problem? But I will say that I like the idea of giving surface settlments another, more interesting punishment tool on it's own merits. Though it may come with it's own strictures.

Of course, strictures essential. But it does sound interesting!

But Will It Blend wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 1:25 am

While I understand the desire to have tools to remove large groups, the reality is... that's not really what RP is about? If you have people that are antagonists, simply saying 'You're not allowed to play in our sandbox' isn't fun for both sides. Honestly, try reaching out and talking to the people who are on the other side.

If you feel like raids are being excessive, just talk. See if that helps. If people are being unfair or hostile or forgetting it's a game, report anything that isn't acceptable behaviour.

I just ask for some more tools to use. If we get mentioned punishment up there, it be more equal footing.

Cobblewobble wrote: Tue May 20, 2025 8:24 pm

The slavery system doesn't need more counters because it isn't a competitive system.

You opt into slavery when you want to be a slave.

You roleplay with a chainbreaker when you want to stop roleplaying a slave.

It's facilitating a narrative, nothing else.

This ^ 100%

The GrumpyCat wrote: Thu May 22, 2025 12:13 am

Well, there has been talk of putting in some sort of other, similar ic 'punishment' as Slavery in surface settlments. Forced labor for example, where someone is collared until they collect a certain amount of resources. Surfdom I think was breifly played around a bit. It's an interesting idea, that might provide more interesting ways for surface settlments to punish pcs that isn't jail, exile, ect. Perhaps that would serve as a... balencer?

Again, I'll add personally I'm not sure that this is really a problem? But I will say that I like the idea of giving surface settlments another, more interesting punishment tool on it's own merits. Though it may come with it's own strictures.

Sure hope it comes with the option to entirely opt out of it. I can't imagine anything less interesting than an enforced "go get us 200 coal and spend 6 RL months as slave because you pickpocketed that guy in cordor sewer when you were level 3".

It takes like, a day to get that little coal.

LurkingShadow wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 4:13 pm

silverpheonix wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 12:04 pm

LurkingShadow wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 9:30 am

If slaves don't need upkeep, why should the exile and pariah system be so expensive?

I don't understand the connection you're making here. These two systems are entirely separate and aren't related to each other. This is like asking "if the radiant heart has no upkeep for its members, why is exile expensive?" Unless I'm missing something because I'm on zero coffee?

I see it as the tools settlements have. Some got slavery, some have pariah and exiles. The latter is expensive. Slavery is not. Which in reality, it should be. There should be an upkeep to have slaves in an settlement in my opinion.

Which settlements don't have the ability to pariah/exile?

silverpheonix wrote: Fri May 23, 2025 11:46 am

It takes like, a day to get that little coal.

Being sent to gather resources as punishment or to earn faction bona fides is so lame. It belongs in 2009, with hood checks and alignment murder doors.

Marsi wrote: Fri May 23, 2025 11:54 am

silverpheonix wrote: Fri May 23, 2025 11:46 am

It takes like, a day to get that little coal.

Being sent to gather resources as punishment or to earn faction bona fides is so lame. It belongs in 2009, with hood checks and alignment murder doors.

When Ott and Janhorn got in trouble in Andunor, Ott got the prisoner collar and was told to farm 200 marble. It turned into an opportunity for her to hang out in Andunor, have fun, and talk smack about Janhorn while doing the odd marble run here and there. I liked how it was more imaginative than "lol we'll torture you in the Hub for fun".

silverpheonix wrote:

When Ott and Janhorn got in trouble in Andunor, Ott got the prisoner collar and was told to farm 200 marble. It turned into an opportunity for her to hang out in Andunor, have fun, and talk smack about Janhorn while doing the odd marble run here and there. I liked how it was more imaginative than "lol we'll torture you in the Hub for fun".

No comment on the rest but I do have to say 'grind x resource' is not imaginative. In fact, torture can be more imaginative.