Arelith

Had no clue where to post this.

So.

A group ventured to the Dragon island.
Outcome: Defeat.

Our group consisted of four high levels, two at least were 29-30. Party roles were kind of balanced. A Cleric, a true flamer, a ranger & animal, a DD.

We had relatively no problems with the giants and elementals. Sulphurous grotto however changed everything.
The Great Red Wyrm (mind me not the island's big bad boss) which spawn not far from the descend we could not defeat. We could only hit it on 20-s (hits of 69-ish were missing), the dragon fire is devastating, comes at you concealed with fire shield and is casting high level spells. Wing flaps has a good chance knocking you down.

After a good 20 minutes brawling, two casualties, we had to flee.

In comparision a similar group (2 PCs were the same) could defeat the Aurilite dragon, and the Manor of Mourn boss.


Reason of this post to help the Devs gather feedback on that place if they require any. If not feel free to lock this.

I always thought of RDI as a kind of MMO "Raid" or "Operation". Perhaps a group of four people just isn't enough, no matter how strong they might be. They need "End Game" gear & the coordination of doing said raids. That's the challenge of RDI! The Dragon needs to be Tanked with a sufficient meatshield, most likely with an Off-Tank. There should be Heals, as you had, & plenty of DPS, like the Rangers & Casters. So it sounds like you had the idea right, you just need more of that x)

My two cents.

Reading back the combat logs, it just felt mechanically nigh impossible to beat that creature, which was not even Abbazhur.

Might be that case what you said, though mind me our group was not a casual "band together and adventure" party, but was quite capable to handle places.

sadly there isn't really such thing as "end game gear" You can have epic basin enchants but that will only typically give minor improvements.

I would agree with the Prophet on this one, You probably need more people. Add this to your Melee types being effectively nothing more then meatshields only damaging on a crit.... this means you need more casters spamming unblock-able spells for ALL hard end game area's.

Curious if since the increase of difficulty any of you managed to beat the RDI?

Raid and operation content seems out of place in an NWN server. It's fine on an MMO where the game engine and the player population both accommodate full raids of scores of players in one dungeon. In NWN, though, things start lagging the moment you have more than a dozen people in the same spot.

It's more likely that RDI dragons were overtuned in the difficulty adjustment. Previously, RDI was far, far too easy and, perhaps, the most solo-farmed high epic area in the server's history. But the mobs shouldn't be harder than the bosses of other high epic dungeons.

That said, I've been informed that you actually came up against something more along the lines of a (sub) boss rather than a normal mob. You may want to try including a party member that tends to excel against high-level bosses, such as an epic wizard, an AA, or a paladin. It seems like the majority of your offense relied on the True Flamer, and IGMS spam doesn't work against all challenges.

Try using things like Invisibility Purge and Breach to strip it of defenses. The person I'm talking to can chime in - but to answer your question, yes, that wyrm's been defeated.

yellowcateyes wrote:…Raid and operation content seems out of place in an NWN server…

That is certainly not what RDI is, but that's how I would approach it.

Although having DM'd servers in the past, some of them did implement very elegant boss fights with phases & mechanics that would mimic a Raid from an MMO. It is very fun to see & play in NWN!

To add, there are also certain bard builds which are amongst the most useful in the game when it comes to taking down epic bosses, and will make a huge difference in a fight like this.

said bard builds are, I suspect are the reason for such upgraded enemies as well.

Debuffs = sometimes the tide turner.

the problem is with NWN there is such a HUGE utility difference when fighting that if you balance an encounter for the majority of the classes, that means one or two are going to find that fight easy. People then complain that X can do it easier then Y and that isn't fair.

If you balance everything to the best class combo, it means everyone else will have an extremely hard time without that class combo there.

This is accented in that arelith is a relatively low magic server. Magic often will tend to act as a leveling field due to it being the most powerful and useful effects in the game.

Preacher wrote:the problem is with NWN there is such a HUGE utility difference when fighting that if you balance an encounter for the majority of the classes, that means one or two are going to find that fight easy. People then complain that X can do it easier then Y and that isn't fair.

Counter: We could easily remove the complaining and the power disposition nerflessly by bringing everything else "up to par". See fighter and warlock for examples. Sure, people can still win by the numbers somewhat, but it's not so narrow in it's tolerance range, and you'd need to really screw it up to bottom out.

Screw up, read as: a test of skill.

... I await the moment at which I bother to think this out enough to make a thread.

Honestly, there are only a few classes that are seriously lagging behind at this point, so I think we're pretty close.

I think this may be a case of an entirely different phenomenon, though: Some epic bosses I haven't tested out in a long time, but if memory serves, they are all susceptible to different approaches.

Mourn is a test of a party's ability to handle lots of hostile spellcasters after a long and grueling dungeon, while potentially tanking against scary physical damage opponents. The boss fight here isn't actually comparable to Abby or Zamishar or Paush, as the challenge is an endurance gauntlet dungeon. So success against the last encounter does not indicate that a party is likely to have success against other encounters.

Each of the remaining epic bosses tends to strain a different sort of performance metric. Being able to take on any one of these with a party does not neccessarily mean that the same tactics will work against all of these. A party capable of tanking Zamishar and wearing him down may lack the AB to crack Paush, for example.

Amana beat the Red Dragon and Abazzur with a part of four. Two of them were level 23~, the last 28.

It's very much possible. I'll say no more. These are the epicest greatest challenges of the isle. I suppose they shouldn't be easy. There's always a price to not building 'strong' characters.

DestroyerOTN wrote:Counter: We could easily remove the complaining and the power disposition nerflessly by bringing everything else "up to par". See fighter and warlock for examples. Sure, people can still win by the numbers somewhat, but it's not so narrow in it's tolerance range, and you'd need to really screw it up to bottom out.

Screw up, read as: a test of skill.

I like the fact that some classes do thing better then others. it creates a nice mix. I'm happy I don't make the decisions for balance and such as it seems a huge task.

Long gone are the days that any character could beat Abby with good planning

I remember 3 years ago was way easier than what it is now

I used to go there with my average fighter and a paladin/fighter companion and make it happen
very long fights but it was doable

Now is the opposite, no 1 month ago I went there with a bunch of epics with one of my toons, a balanced party but I knew for some reason we where heading to our doom!!!and that we did, I was the last one to die, and one of my companion.... hmmmm.... well...... he logged to avoid death,,, the coward!!!

Do I go there now? Yes I do, but my role is support as soon as we get into that lair because my companion is the one that can beat that thing