Arelith

Super short. Basically I get the feeling Bards are loosing grounds to the other paths it offers. So the idea is simply to make the Bardic knowledge exclusive for Bards.

As in, disable the feat for path Bards, as they also lose bard song? I can get behind that, seeing as PnP Warlocks, or Favored Souls don't gain a per-level bonus to Knowledge skills.

Fixed. Stupid typos.

That is the most confusing response, Kregor. I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing.

I'd quite like to see this also, a big portion of the class population is able to auto-translate all languages.

for those of us who are trying to HIDE that we are warlocks, Please do not take this out. it gives use some communication variety. Bards have plenty of things warlocks don't.

Honestly access to their song and spells warlocks lose already makes a huge difference in the path vs the class.

Ehh... Infinite casting, even from a limited pool, puts Warlocks head, shoulders, and giant Pope-hat above reguBards, with the latest mob changes.

You can still bluff Bardness by taking ESF: Lore. Even then, probably half of the Bards on Arelith are multiclassed, making it perfectly reasonable for them to have only 20 Lore and no language comprehension.

I am most convinced by the argument that neither warlocks nor favored souls have a bardic knowlege parallel. Mechanically, I think regubard is on par with Warlock and a smidge better than FvS, though all three fill entirely different roles.

Edit: Also, I think bard is probably the worst class a warlock could pretend to be, as bards have a super distinctive, unique class feature that Warlocks cannot use, and is a far more significant tell on the are-you-a-bard-o-meter than any amount of polyglotism will be. Better to disguise as some sort of weird sorc/rogue hybrid.

what is a regubard?.... if you mean regular bard... just call it bard. The little English teacher in my head keeps flinching when I read the word.

the warlock class in general would be a bit more knowledgeable much like the bard as they are pacted with beings that are the "good to" for casters that need a question answered. They do know things.

I'm really confused as to how access to Bardic Knowledge is meant to be a buff to bards. It's not like there's much you need 70 lore for on the server.

its the 39 lore goal that is the issue.

at 39 lore you "understand" every language. Adding lore to items does not help this roll. only increasing int, base lore skill and the lore/legend lore line of spells.

with 30 lvl's of bard that means you need 9 points total of combined intelligence and skills to be able to understand languages

Consider it my personal revenge on AP English teachers everywhere for the reading lists I had to slog through.

I will agree that of the two bard paths, Warlocks have the best reason to keep the feat. They at least have the whole forbidden knowlege thing going on.

Counter-suggestion: Lore only helps you translate non-Material Prime languages (celestial infernal and abyssal) and maybe Draconic.

It makes sense for bards to understand languages of mortals.
-V-

Against.

Look at the advantages warlocks get all you desire. Denying that vanilla bards comprise fully 1/6th of all the powerbuilt characters on this server is lying.

Plus; I, for one, think my lowerplane-pacted or inexorably divine-linked character should gain a modicum of knowledge for being so bound. Perhaps only relevant knowledge to the patron, but knowledge

I don't think non-path bards are losing ground at all. It's still a very attractive class in a variety of builds.

I can't agree. Warlock infinite casting is VERY limited.

Abyssal/Infernal warlocks lack bread and butter spells, like haste and concealment.

Fey warlocks lack offensive spells and summons that are so strong right now.

And both of them lack Bard Song. Go on an adventure one time with a proper bard and it's all you need to know. Major buffs for attack and damage, saves, hp, skills, ac. And a debuff of all that with curse. It's ridiculously powerful.

Also consider the fact that, like Weave Masters were when they were implemented, these warlocks are new, and are -very- likely to be tuned down in a few weeks.

Regardless of the discussion about whether or not bards are stonger or weaker than the bard paths, I think it does make sense to restrict access to bardic knowledge, so I think I'll do it.