Arelith

My suggestion is simple: Give Undead Shape to Pale Masters, starting at level 15 PM. Tie it to the -polymorph command.

The forms are pretty powerful, but not as powerful as totems or dragonshapes. It seems extremely fitting to me that the DEDICATED (level 15+) pale masters receive this, especially as there's only one undead polymorph available otherwise.

I like the idea thematically and flavour-wise but I could see some balancing issues due to synergies with the PM abilities.

What do you mean, Undead Shapes. What forms are you getting at, exactly?

Risen Lord
Vampire
Spector

As per http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Undead_shape

It would be cool if they could have some other sweet stuff bound to the arcane class they choose. A wizard for example could shift into a risen mage, sorc into a vampire mage... Stuff like that.

Jagel wrote:I like the idea thematically and flavour-wise but I could see some balancing issues due to synergies with the PM abilities.

At present the only ones who can get Undead Shape are Shifters. I don't feel particularly concerned about Pale Masters having in essence a stronger Undead Shape than what Shifters would have, by virtue of their Bone Skin and Deathless Vigor feats.

While it's a cool idea, the cynic in me sees some idiot taking PM levels, getting this undead shape and then claiming that they're a lich or whatever in disguise with one of the shapes.

It's happened before with druids. Characters going for dragonshape roleplayed that they were, in fact, dragons that were 'stuck' or biding their time in humanoid form.

I like it, and if it gets abused I'm sure the DM will be more than happy to smite them.

Hunter548 wrote:While it's a cool idea, the cynic in me sees some idiot taking PM levels, getting this undead shape and then claiming that they're a lich or whatever in disguise with one of the shapes.

We've already had an Aasimar Druid/monk/shifter undead shaper on the server. As far wacky class RP limbo goes, I don't think the bar can be set much lower.

I like the spirit of the suggestion, myself, and would also like to see undead shape made inaccessible to Druids (possibly in line with a rework to make shifter accessible to wizards and sorcs). As much as people complain about dragonshapers, there is no character concept that has bugged me from a strictly RP standpoint as much as a Druid that routinely turns into an undead horror.

Ecstatic wrote:
I like the spirit of the suggestion, myself, and would also like to see undead shape made inaccessible to Druids (possibly in line with a rework to make shifter accessible to wizards and sorcs). As much as people complain about dragonshapers, there is no character concept that has bugged me from a strictly RP standpoint as much as a Druid that routinely turns into an undead horror.

I've always considered the Shifter as fighting fire with fire when such shapes are used. Shifters are not truly undead when they take an undead shape, but are mimicking the abilities to better fight such things.

Undeath = anathema to Druids. Plain Jane Druids deal with aspects of the natural world (animals, beasts, elementals, even dragons are a natural, living, breathing creature). I see no reason, ICly or mechanically, to enable such a form for a non PrC that doesn't require DM intervention or a even a rare dice roll. The answer to people complaining about dragon shape isn't to enable another, even more immersion breaking, form for a vanilla Druid.

KregorRanger wrote:Undeath = anathema to Druids. Plain Jane Druids deal with aspects of the natural world (animals, beasts, elementals, even dragons are a natural, living, breathing creature). I see no reason, ICly or mechanically, to enable such a form for a non PrC that doesn't require DM intervention or a even a rare dice roll. The answer to people complaining about dragon shape isn't to enable another, even more immersion breaking, form for a vanilla Druid.

Who are you even responding to?

KregorRanger wrote:Undeath = anathema to Druids.

valo65 wrote:My suggestion is simple: Give Undead Shape to Pale Masters, starting at level 15 PM. Tie it to the -polymorph command.

Hunter548 wrote:While it's a cool idea, the cynic in me sees some idiot taking PM levels, getting this undead shape and then claiming that they're a lich or whatever in disguise with one of the shapes.

If I ever got anything significant like this, be it Undead Shape or Dragonshape, or I played a shifter, I would absolutely use it and IC'ly claim to be a lich. Granted my character would of course be a fraud and would technically be quite mortal, not a dragon, or actually not a drow weaponmaster. I would just be holding the promise of unlimited power over my underlings and using it to scare my enemies, inflating my own importance while I scheme against all of you plebeians.

So your cynicism serves you well.

Oh... Ecstatic said inaccessible to druids... I misread it. Sorry