magistrasa wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 02, 2023 3:58 pm
That's not about to stop me. Prepare for battle.
Language proficiency is an incredibly underrated tool at the Loremaster's disposal, because it literally grants you the ability to communicate with a broader variety of characters and latch onto plot hooks that you might have otherwise been ignorant to. In other words, by taking this class, you are now able to roleplay with more people. Once again, this is a roleplay server. A core feature of the class simply makes you a more potent roleplayer. That doesn't seem a little bit insane to you?
Similarly, it's no coincidence that almost every Loremaster is actually a spymaster.
I don't think even 10% of loremasters are actually spymasters. Language proficiency isn't as good as you make it out to be. My current loremaster rarely encounters situations where languages come into play, and just having a decent int/gift of tongues gives you most of the core languages people speak. My wizard who knew 5 languages before loremaster even existed had as much language RP as my loremaster with 11 languages, and my elf who knew two had more only because of being an elf.
Note that I am saying specifically language encounters, this is not to say I don't make use of the languages in my own personal RP; just that I've not encountered additional plots I would've been left out of, or information I would've missed, by virtue of having additional loremaster languages. If anything, the few encounters I have had would've been improved by having fewer languages, as I would have had more reason to seek out other people to get a translation.
Morgy wrote: ↑
Fri Jun 02, 2023 4:04 pm
Loremaster is pretty good for PvP when used with the right 'secrets'. AB/AC and empowered scrolls should not be underestimated.
I do not think Loremaster should be deleted, but I would be in favour of removing the scry secret, which allows far too much easy spying.
Scrying comes up frequently as a problem and I imagine it is a closely watched topic by the admins/devs. I do hope it gets reviewed openly in the future.
Perhaps Scrying should be removed, but Div would need a new fun tool to play with too. Maybe scrying needs to just be adjusted to allow you to only scry those you've interacted with, like placing a marker on a person and it allows you to scry only them for a few RL days. Something like that would remove the actual abuse of the skill, and require some amount of actual face to face roleplay with the target rather than someone just having a scrylist.
That said, I don't think Loremaster should be deleted either, I do think that the mechanical secrets should maybe go away. AB especially negates basically all penalty from taking loremaster on martial classes, while AC is half of armour skin and stacks with it, and health is a free toughness feat. Maybe div secret can give access to deck of stars rather than scry, so that it reduces the number of people with scry.
Practically though, scry is trivial to hide from unless people are abusing it as noted above (using it to scry through someone's disguise in the middle of town), and there are IG books on how to counter it. So scry itself isn't strong, but it is definitely very abuseable.
Empowered wands/scrolls are also very powerful in PVP; just having a 25% higher chance to nuke a gate summon with WoF alone is huge. 1 more AC from barkskin, longer scroll durations and thus less gold spent - on a server where gold wins PVP. A class that makes it 50% cheaper to PVP is going to be a massive boost to PVP, especially with the large boost to lore allowing level 8 or 9 scroll use (just being a loremaster with maxed ranked lore gives you level 7 scrolls).
It might even be worth making loremaster 18 int, to make it less accessible and a greater cost to get. 16 is trivial to get on basically any non MAD build. Even if you have to sacrifice 2str or 2 con from your barbarian or WM, you make up for it with 1AB secret or 30hp secret.