Dragon Shaper Nerf Discussion

[Cortex]

For reference, those are the stats of a pure druid without tumble, armor skin, or any feat/buff that would interfer with their stats. Also pure at 20 BAB, so you could get it higher.

Link

On top of that, there's the following stats which haven't been included in the announcement:

Green:
100% Acid Immunity
12 Hide/MS
3d6 Sneak Attack
18 SR

Red:
100% Fire Immunity
100% Cold Vulnerability
18 SR

Brass:
100% Electric Immunity
24 SR

EDIT: CORRECTION, they have +2 AB from wilderness area.

[Wytchee]

53 AB fully buffed and in wilderness areas is pretty good.

The elemental forms are still superior on every level. But this is a must-have for any druids who dip ranger, fighter, etc.

[IIllII]

buff wizards

[gilescorey]

When is scim wm getting some buffs

[yellowcateyes]

It's not broken. It's still worth taking. And druids who aspire to the feat no longer have to lock themselves to the Lawful Neutral alignment (which, let's be honest, was rarely adhered to).

This change is fine by me.

[Cortex]

When is scim wm getting some buffs

for next update scimitar will now be considered a large weapon for the purposes of disarm

[JediMindTrix]

#imwithmali

[Seven Sons of Sin]

Why can't you post this in the feedback forum?

(why do I have to keep nagging about something so fundamental and QoL)

[The Salt Elemental]

When is scim wm getting some buffs

#This

[IIllII]

Still good

23/4FTR/3Bard, Red form, 45 AC unbuffed
+6 tumble
+5 natural AC, shadskin, bark
+1 mage armor dodge AC
+4 shield deflection AC
+4 haste dodge AC
+6 DEX AC
+2 Armor skin
+10 imp expertise

= 83 AC, 85 in Bronze form.
Dragonshapers can now take EDK, Gruin and Hellball since they won't need Greater Wisdom anymore.

EDIT: Last I checked it was possible to create a clone of yourself in Dragonshape form using project_image, Now, I'm not saying you should have three dragons at the same time..

But you can.

[Sab1]

Like everything else I say give it a try first before anyone says it's ruined. Sure people can come up wiith some nice ideas with it not being a mandatory monk dip now.

[hoshi]

EDIT: Last I checked it was possible to create a clone of yourself in Dragonshape form using polymorph_self. Now, I'm not saying you should have three dragons at the same time..

But you can.

Sort of. It will copy the base stats but none of the special properties. So a -project_image of a monolithic earth elemental will not have the form's dodge AC, elemental immunities, DR, knockdown immunity, or even free knockdown feat etc but will have its crazy strength and thus most of its AB. I'd assume that the dragon copy would work the same way, a decent attack but a lot easier to hit.

[flower]

Elise threathens Briz with Ryld.

Ryld gets nerfed.

Briz can melee Ryld now.


Haha.

[IIllII]

EDIT: Last I checked it was possible to create a clone of yourself in Dragonshape form using polymorph_self. Now, I'm not saying you should have three dragons at the same time..

But you can.

Sort of. It will copy the base stats but none of the special properties. So a -project_image of a monolithic earth elemental will not have the form's dodge AC, elemental immunities, DR, knockdown immunity, or even free knockdown feat etc but will have its crazy strength and thus most of its AB. I'd assume that the dragon copy would work the same way, a decent attack but a lot easier to hit.

Ah yeah it's project_image, not sure why I typed polymorph.

[flower]

23/x druid will get dispelled.

It makes him dispelled on roll 15+ on scroll/spell wothout abjuration. More or less even with battleclerics now.

[Hexgoblin]

It's that time for me to make an uncharacteristically loaded post, and say that I haven't been this happy to read the announcements thread in a long time.

Druid/monk dragonshapers have been the biggest mechanical blight upon this game for the longest time. See, the thing with people complaining about nerfing dragonshape being a nerf to druids - a class already percieved as in a bad state is this:

You couldn't buff druids without also buffing druid/monk dragonshapers.

These had to be removed from the equation, before the class could be objectively looked at. Not to mention that the ability to now fit both utility dragonshape and epic focuses/spells is pretty potent to me. Not to mention that the elemental shapes, as it stands, actually are very much worthwhile.

Personally, I'd prefer to remove monk synergy with every single druid shape, and find a middleground between a present state and their potential with the monk dip, burying the "hehe, you want to play a druid? Better go LN or you'll be 1/8th of what you could be" consideration forever.

[BegoneThoth]

Could just cap monk wisdom ac to monk level.

[Ork]

Parry dragonshapers cometh.

[Jagel]

Dmg is unarmed now and not creature weapons, i.e. 1d3?

[Borgian Oligarchy]

This pleases me.

[Hexgoblin]

If I recall correctly, they're actually using a magic staff, to eliminate the ability to focus into a weapon to beef an already very high AB further. Also ruling out silly things like druid/fighter/WM dragonshapers, while still cancelling out monk APR bonuses.

[Lorkas]

You can't be an unarmed or creature weapon WM anyway. The biggest effect of making them unarmed is that they can't pierce DR by using premonition and wielding a creature weapon.

[The GrumpyCat]

Unlocking this due to several requests, though I am concerned about the direction this could go. Please keep all your responses respectful and on point.

[Hexgoblin]

In response to Lorkas, what I meant was moreso that creature weapons and unarmed still allow for monk APR, whereas the reason they currently do not benefit from said APR, is that they've been given a weapon while in dragonshape. Said weapon being a magic staff, to make sure it cannot be focused into.

[Cortex]

Due to an unforeseen 2da bug, we are considering alternatives to requirements. So I advise people from taking DS for now.