TimeAdept wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:37 pm
Capitalism is a terror, and there is no ethical consumption of consumables under capitalism.
Please do not make melee weapons "consumable". If anything, ranged options should be less "consumable".
Amen to this.
I think all you'd be doing is favoring the hardcore players who have infinite time to play the game over casual payers, which is fine, but honestly don't the hardcore players already have enough advantages, in that they have more chances to get more gold, find better loot, have time to do all the crafting they want, etc. etc. No need building all these extra advantages for them too.
I have to agree there, at the end of the day, crafters like me need to play with other folks, and I can't do that if most of my customer base, the casual players as some would put it, are discouraged by the immense amount of time to do what they loathe to do instead of something they like.
At least the "less consumable" part is what happened to templates in the past couple of days.
For you, the day Kenji overhauled your class was the most important day of your life.
But for me, it was Tuesday. To-do list
The Kriv wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:05 pm
But, I think it could be extended to melee weapons classes. I think we should develop a similar method, based on the "500 hits." like the 99x5 bundle of arrows.
It would simplify things tremendously. First, Masterly Damask weapons could go away. We could stop at Damask Weapons. +3 hit, +3 damage on all/any melee weapon is all that would be required. THEN... for every melee class, an automatic +3 damage is applied on equip. Just like Archers! In fact.. we could scale it... so that low level melee classes start with +1, then get +2, then get +3 damage ON EQUIP. -then.. once you have that Damask +3 hit +3 Damage weapon equipped, the melee class's +3 Auto Damage Bonus ON EQUIP effectively creates the equivalent of that Masterly Damask +3/+6Damage weapon!
THEN! Templates created! these templates "sharpen" The blade. And you could apply an essence ONLY to a fully Sharpened (or whatever equivalent for Bludgeoning/Piercing) - and that Essence could be really AMAZING essence! You could stack spells on it, and some could be 1d4 and 1d6 and flat +6 or whatever... and you get to keep that SHARPENED blade with that ESSENCE on it for those 500 hits! Then it turns back into that mundane Damask +3 / +3 damage weapon... BUT you can still use it as a regular non-essenced weapon until you can "sharpen" it back up!
We could have a crafting "template" available of various grades. Simple, unstable, stable, epic, etc.. and then Melee classes could keep two or three or four fully SHARPENED weapons (i.e., the weapons would have those stacked essences and such on them) ready to go, so that at the end of the 500 hits, the character can just swap to a new, freshly sharpened (i.e. essence stacked) weapon! maybe long fights would need the character to keep THREE or FOUR "sharpened" weapons so that they could get through the fight!
And then. when the melee character rests! they whip out their template, and their repair kit, and they RE-SHARPEN right there in the middle of the adventure! no need go back to town! and oh.. yeah, you are going to need specific crafting skills to keep those templates in repair as well!
BUT! this system, like the arrow crafting system, would be really cool too! it would be much more like real weapons! weapons that lose their sharpness! and need to be re-sharpened!
Now everyone wouldn't need to have this best in slot super sharpened blade, in fact, most folk could get by with a standard +3 damask weapon. Maintaining and managing the "sharpeness" (i.e. adding all those extra cool damage bonus essences) would greatly increase the crafting economy! as melee class characters would constantly need to seek out the components to keep their weapons in some sort of enhanced damage capacity above the simple +3 Damask.
This ammo crafting system could be a perfect template for making melee weapons become "consumable" goods! Which anyone who lives in the US knows... a consumable economy is a good economy!
This guy nailed it. Thank you for dragging the absurdity of ammunition into the spotlight.
I've brought up in the past the idea that a full-on dedicated archer build, that isn't a dedicated AA or some cryptic buff-o-matic caster hybrid, ought to be able to break 100 points on a crit with really lucky damage getting above 150.
I played a lvl 30 archer with 15 levels of AA and WS/EWS Longbow, fully buffed in a party-setting and using a +1d6/+4 double-essenced Damask Arrow, breaking 110 was a rare thing and she never broke the 117 mark. Most crits were 50-70.
If AA is the ranged equivalent to the melee Weaponmaster, that's a pretty sad state of archery.
I've seen archer crits above 120 on very specific built cleric combo Black Archer Builds, and some high rogue bonus short-range AOO hits... and even then, those damage ranges were using top end, highest tier, best-in-slot ammunition. I've never seen a ranged damage top 150+. Maybe others have, but playing as an archer, traveling with other archers, I've not seen it.
I also want to acknowledge that other class-types of the arcane/divine/warlock/whatever also has resource management involved in their class build in order to be effective in combat, and without that resource management, or if it is mis-managed, then that class gets gimped too, but the nature of those resources are vastly different and the sort of damage they deal is also very different.
I'm talking about swinging something with your arm, using your strength to land a blow on a target to deal physical damage, vs. holding a ranged weapon i.e. bows, with your arm, using your strength to load enough force to launch a projectile to land a blow on a target to deal physical damage.
What does it take for an Archer to be truly effective to engage in high-end, high level content... whether solo, or in a group setting.
The management and crafting and gold investment to stay top-tier, high end for an archer is significantly greater for a class that WITHOUT this specific crafting/resource/consumable element, even with the most optimal build is well below.. SIGNIFICANTLY below every melee type/role who ONLY must make that investment ONCE.
I think the system in place right now is on the right track to makeing this much much better.
super awesome bows? YEAH! bring it! Give archers something they can crack that 100 point LUCKY-crit damage barrier BEFORE adding those essences etc...
Now.. how do we get to the next level? Suggestion:
1) What does it take to make a Adamantine Shield? Translate that exact recipe into a Amunition template but mix up the components.
2) once created... the Amunition template has the SAME CHANCE of degrading as a Damask Weapon does when that weapon used in battle.. NOT every time you crank out a 99 stack of arrows.
3) Essences applied to the Amunition Template are the exact same as you would apply to a Masterly Damask Weapon.
4) Temp Essences Only able to be applied to individual 99 stacks of arrows.
This then makes Archery on par with Melee Weapon/shield. Make them equal in crafting in every way, except the names of the needed pieces.
Make the bow/amunition template exactly equal to the Melee-weapon/Shield in terms of damage potential when used properly.
-Unit of beauty required to launch one ship = 1 milihelen
The Kriv wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:05 pm
But, I think it could be extended to melee weapons classes. I think we should develop a similar method, based on the "500 hits." like the 99x5 bundle of arrows.
It would simplify things tremendously. First, Masterly Damask weapons could go away. We could stop at Damask Weapons. +3 hit, +3 damage on all/any melee weapon is all that would be required. THEN... for every melee class, an automatic +3 damage is applied on equip. Just like Archers! In fact.. we could scale it... so that low level melee classes start with +1, then get +2, then get +3 damage ON EQUIP. -then.. once you have that Damask +3 hit +3 Damage weapon equipped, the melee class's +3 Auto Damage Bonus ON EQUIP effectively creates the equivalent of that Masterly Damask +3/+6Damage weapon!
This guy nailed it. Thank you for dragging the absurdity of ammunition into the spotlight.
Enjoyment & Fun > Need for realism
Yes, I think one way to get build diversity is to standardize the classes such that either they all rely on craftable consumables, or none of them do. That's why I tried to use healing kits as an example. Fighter is super low maintenance compared to many other builds by virtue of the fact that their consumables are available in NPC shops. I think that's a balance issue. Imagine if healing kits all had to be crafted and fighters had to spend a bunch of time chasing down crafters or crafting kits themselves to be functional.
The Kriv wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:42 pm
I've brought up in the past the idea that a full-on dedicated archer build, that isn't a dedicated AA or some cryptic buff-o-matic caster hybrid, ought to be able to break 100 points on a crit with really lucky damage getting above 150.
I played a lvl 30 archer with 15 levels of AA and WS/EWS Longbow, fully buffed in a party-setting and using a +1d6/+4 double-essenced Damask Arrow, breaking 110 was a rare thing and she never broke the 117 mark. Most crits were 50-70.
In my opinion archer is solid right now. I'd make bladethirst work on bows, but that's about it. Bladethirst on bows = solid alternative to arcane archer. Makes 27 ranger 3 whatever solid.
The Kriv wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:42 pm
I've brought up in the past the idea that a full-on dedicated archer build, that isn't a dedicated AA or some cryptic buff-o-matic caster hybrid, ought to be able to break 100 points on a crit with really lucky damage getting above 150.
I played a lvl 30 archer with 15 levels of AA and WS/EWS Longbow, fully buffed in a party-setting and using a +1d6/+4 double-essenced Damask Arrow, breaking 110 was a rare thing and she never broke the 117 mark. Most crits were 50-70.
In my opinion archer is solid right now. I'd make bladethirst work on bows, but that's about it. Bladethirst on bows = solid alternative to arcane archer. Makes 27 ranger 3 whatever solid.
Honestly, I think ranger/fighter/bard is comparable to a lot of arcane archer builds. You're short a decent chunk of AB, but you do a lot more damage, and have more utility in the form of HiPS. Not to mention you can bladethirst your arrow templates.
UilliamNebel wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:24 pm
You're right. Participating in the forums was a mistake. Won't do this again.
Anime Sword Fighter wrote:
I have seen far too many miniskirt anime slave girls.
We'll see how the bladethirst goes on arrow templates. I suspect it'll only give +4 damage, but damask arrows already give +3, so assuming they don't stack it'll be a negligibly small improvement.
Invader_Nym wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:28 pm
We'll see how the bladethirst goes on arrow templates. I suspect it'll only give +4 damage, but damask arrows already give +3, so assuming they don't stack it'll be a negligibly small improvement.
Weapon buffs are a unique scaling on templates. I haven't tested blade thirst yet, but I doubt what it gives is going to be comparable to what it does on melee weapons.
UilliamNebel wrote: Wed Feb 12, 2020 10:24 pm
You're right. Participating in the forums was a mistake. Won't do this again.
Anime Sword Fighter wrote:
I have seen far too many miniskirt anime slave girls.
Wytchee wrote: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:37 pm
Tested blackstaff. +2 magic damage on a standard template. I assume it gives more on a higher tier template?
Does not give the other benefits/changes of blackstaff (nor should it, imo).
Should also be CL based as I understand.
Hmm. Level 19 at present.
GMW also gives +2 physical when used via a scroll, and +3 when cast from my spellbook. Guess I'll have to wait until my art crafting his higher to really experiment!
