Enchantment Buff Ideas

[Baron Saturday]

Since the other thread is getting, uh, somewhat bogged down and technical, I figured I'd start one focused just on spitballing ideas for mechanical and RP bonuses to the Enchantment foci feats.

Let's make something real clear: This thread is not about basin bonuses. Nor is it intended to get super in-depth on any one particular suggestion like the Clarity thread. This thread is only about coming up with ideas to make Enchantment a more useful school, with the hopes of inspiring the poor dev working on the project. If the debates from the other threads spill into this one, I will kindly request a lock.

So, with that in mind, gonna quote some ideas from earlier threads to get the ball rolling... and to make them a bit more accessible, so that wading through that thread to find them isn't necessary.

Personally, I still like my idea (from the same thread) of -sympathy and -antipathy commands which act as AoE aggro management, attracting or repelling mobs from the target of the command. Based on the spells of the same name:
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Sympathy
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Antipathy

How about a level 10 spell that forces everyone in an AoE to... dance.

(ala Otto's Irresistable Dance)

RP:
- Some sort of charm, or spell, that grants bonuses to bluff, persuade, intimidate, and persuade. This would could be roleplayed as creating a charm against others that view you, to protect your disguise, or charming a merchant.

Mechanical:
- Increased duration for Dominate and Charm spells, to make dominating creatures a feasible way to have a servant, rather than summoning.

Not entirely happy with the above suggestions, but just my two cents.

Enchantment Focuses adding buffs to dominated monsters Conjuration style would be pretty cool.

Let epic enchanters have a spell that upon casting, spawns 4 modelless, voicepackless, indestructable, unhittable NPC's that can not be controlled nor do any damage of any kind, if the target fails the will save they will begin to try and attack the invisible NPC's, otherwise they will just ignore them.

This would simulate the enchanter making the target (or targets) believe that there are some creatures trying to kill them though in reality and to anyone watching they are just fighting with air because there is nothing actually there and its all in their head.

Perhaps making domination spells work like rangers animal emphaty could work. GSF allowing you to take perma control of 1 monster and ESF allowing you to take control of 2.

A simple boon to the dominate spells in terms of duration, as was done with Aura of Vitality, would be a sufficient draw to the school. Epic Enchantment could drastically increase their durations, to make them actually useful on long treks.

EDIT: my suggestion is a little mage-centric, sorry. Hmm!

EDIT 2: Or even a soft bonus to "social" skills like persuade, bluff/perform, appraise, taunt and intimidate, per enchantment focus, as the caster's familiarity with the mind allows them to more easily influence others. This would remedy enchantment being a lackluster choice both mechanically and in terms of roleplay. I feel this suits enchantment very well thematically and would more than make the feats worth it.

GSF - Duration bonuses and/or dominated creature attribute bonuses.
ESF - % chance to penetrate immunity.

Enchantment could provide an alternative to the monster summon spells, giving longer duration and stat buffs. Something else would be nice too. Hm. Like this one http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/antipathy.htm

I just finished playing Pillars of Eternity 2, and a system I greatly enjoyed there was the idea of resistance to debuffs, where a resistant enemy would downgrade a debuff from, say, paralyzed to rooted, or stunned to dazed. It would be interesting if this could be implemented, with ESF Enchantment allowing a partial bypass of mind immunity (probably with a reduced duration, as well).

Alternatively, and this idea definitely needs some work, but what if Enchantment spells applied CC-over-time effects? Each round for the duration of the spell, the target makes a save or suffers the effects of the spell for that round. Recasting the spell refreshes the duration, but does not cause multiple rolls/round to be made. This makes Enchantment much less binary, much less susceptible to removal by -pray, and makes clarity only offer a temporary reprieve from an ongoing effect. The questions this leaves: What further impact (if any) should Enchantment Spell Foci have? What impact should Extend metamagic have? Should casting multiple different CC spells on a target force them to save against each one every round (similar to how someone standing in, say, a web/entangle/grease combo has to save against each one every round), or should all enchantment spells override each other? How would this work with AoE spells like Confusion? (The more I type, the more I think that this is way too complicated to implement well...)

Some sort of -sense_mind ability could be an interesting RP tool. Two ways I could see it working: Targeted on a (non-mind-immune) character, it tells you where that character is for X amount of time. Sending -sense_mind to that character again in that time frame updates their location. A bit similar to scrying, but better for finding people, not so good for spying on them.

Or it could work as a general command, telling you how many other creatures are in the area with you. ESF could update it to give more granular info, such as telling how many hostile v. non-hostile creatures, or how many creatures of each racial group.

What about -kill command. Power Word Kill for enchanters. Enchantment school after all. Make a will save vs death, but like implode cannot be protected with a simple death ward. Once per day.

Just throwing terrible ideas at the wall here and seeing which sticks.

SF has a 10% clarity removal, GSF gives 15% clarity/LMB, ESF gives 20% clarity/LMB/MB. Tweak the numbers as needed.

(This one feels a bit too PvP-oriented, in hindsight.)

SF/GSF/ESF has an X%/2X%/3X% chance to immobilize a mind-immune target for X/2X/3X rounds.

ESF can, 1/rest, send a message to a target that can ONLY be heard by the target. Basically an IC tell.

GSF causes a mind-immune target to take X magical damage/spell level. ESF increases the damage. A psychic backlash sorta thing.

Alright, ladies and gents, take it away!

[Dr. B]

How about a spell similar in implementation to ward that creates an AoE that confuses anyone who enters it.

[Xerah]

I still like my suggestion of (others have said similar):

Dominate person/monsters get durations changed to turns (for gsf), and hours (for esf). The creatures are also given the same bonuses to stats as conjuration line. This makes it viable to do a mages without conjuration.

(There is a lingering question if there is a way to end the domination, as I am unsure since standard methods for conj spells won't apply here).

For Antipathy:
-Cast spell, choose alignment or race
-[Could possibly add in a 1h waiting period]
-those there when effect goes off take will save
-Pass, then they can stay and takes [something other than -4 to dex]
-fail, and they are sent back to the previous area.

I do not know off the top of my head if we track the previous area. It may have to be something else.

[JediMindTrix]

So I think a further refinement of the 'immunity penetration' idea would be instead apply low to medium grade debuffs on the target without removing character control, with that x% chance to 'penetrate' being the chance that these debuffs are applied. Inspiration taken from lesser fear aura's current implementation.

I.E. Properly immunizing yourself to Mind Affecting will keep your characters wits about them, but a powerful enchanter can still use their spells and have an effect that is tangible and useful, and requires counterplay.

EDIT: And that can apply to Death Ward as well. Rather than instant death, give it a x% to cause 'withering' effects: fat debuffs

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

So I think a further refinement of the 'immunity penetration' idea would be instead apply low to medium grade debuffs on the target without removing character control, with that x% chance to 'penetrate' being the chance that these debuffs are applied. Inspiration taken from lesser fear aura's current implementation.

I.E. Properly immunizing yourself to Mind Affecting will keep your characters wits about them, but a powerful enchanter can still use their spells and have an effect that is tangible and useful, and requires counterplay.

EDIT: And that can apply to Death Ward as well. Rather than instant death, give it a x% to cause 'withering' effects: fat debuffs

Similar to the fear aura modifications? That's kinda neat.

[JediMindTrix]

Exactly like the fear aura's, yes. No one seems interested in it though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[thingsicantdo]

i've come around to the "chance to break enchantment immune," but in a different way. straight up will save boost. and i'm talking crazy numbers, but not too crazy. +30.

why thirty? well, the highest DC you can get is in the low 40s (43ish or 44? with a shadowmage enchanter with int boosts all the way?). a +30 would make this *manageable.* add to that the +11 you get for being level 30, and you're basically immune, so long as you're not particularly weak-willed. For the enchanter, he gets a chance. a shot. at using his enchantment spells, especially if he knows where-abouts the target's training will take him when it comes to enchantments. I would put this at the top end. Mind Blank.

next tier, +20. with any amount of building or gear, this is still near immunity for you. some uni-saves (or will specifically), spellcraft is good for a +6, or +7 if you needed a +2 int, but an extremely skilled enchanter can still break you, particularly if you're off guard. lesser mind blank. it's more easily accessible than the real deal.

and lastly +10. Clarity. or clarity potions, take off the cooldown and give the spell +20. this is the problem child because of the random loot drops that instantly cut out a school of magic. because of it's ease in acquiring (and using! no UMD required, anyone can use a potion!), we give this one a +10. enough to make a difference. big ones, too, it's not quite potent enough when facing someone skilled. it'll spruce up a wisdom-based class though, nicely.

but enchanters still need a good RP cookie

[TimeAdept]

You can't add +30. The most you can do is 20, and that would be affected/mitigated by any other gear the character was already wearing.

[JediMindTrix]

IIRC they can raise/lower those scores using nwnx directly (avoiding softcap), but I'm not sure what that'd entail or possibly break.

[Peppermint]

Domination spells already have their durations increased to the tune of turns on Arelith. Further duration increases aren't going to fix the school.

[Dr_Hazard89]

Domination spells already have their durations increased to the tune of turns on Arelith. Further duration increases aren't going to fix the school.

I don't feel like they would either. Having something around for hours would be nice, and maybe that can be done, but it wouldn't really change much except the frequency you see people tug things around for RP. Turns is quite long and for a level 30, 30 turns is plenty of fights. Hours would be nice, but it would be such a tiny buff. I think the school needs something more substantial than that.

[BrutalForce48]

-enchant command, temporarily (1 or 2 min) removes ability to -pray just like -ward teleport and lensing.

Gsf - bumped DC of 2, esf bumped dc of +4.

-enchant command imbues some special properties onto a PC or self. Could be a 1 use spell turning effect or something?

Improved version of saveless warcry for esf? Lasts 30 seconds, enough to give the caster time to flee or etc.

[Dr_Hazard89]

-read. They can be anywhere on the server. You send -read to a player. Lasts turns p/caster level. For the duration of the spell you are telepathically able to hear everything the player says and hears, sent to you as server messages. Sending -read again will stop you from reading that player's mind. Mind wards would prevent the -read from taking place, but won't stop it once it has begun. Only another character with ESF can tell they are being read, similar to how ESF divination allows one to know they are being scried.

Doesn't do much in the ways of mechanical power, but RP-wise would be very powerful. Would make enchanters terribly feared for reasons other than corpse-bashing you.

[Xerah]

Domination spells already have their durations increased to the tune of turns on Arelith. Further duration increases aren't going to fix the school.

It is, you're right. I just remember being extremely underwhelmed when I used it, even with extending, but that was a long while ago. It seemed to fade too quickly. I'll try it again soon.

[Wytchee]

Domination spells already have their durations increased to the tune of turns on Arelith. Further duration increases aren't going to fix the school.

It is, you're right. I just remember being extremely underwhelmed when I used it, even with extending, but that was a long while ago. It seemed to fade too quickly. I'll try it again soon.

It's 1 turn per 3 caster levels, or something like that, for dominate person. Extended, yes, but still not enough to be useful for anyone who isn't a warlock. It's not '30 turns' but like 13 minutes, total, I think.

[Dr_Hazard89]

Domination spells already have their durations increased to the tune of turns on Arelith. Further duration increases aren't going to fix the school.

It is, you're right. I just remember being extremely underwhelmed when I used it, even with extending, but that was a long while ago. It seemed to fade too quickly. I'll try it again soon.

It's 1 turn per 3 caster levels, or something like that, for dominate person. Extended, yes, but still not enough to be useful for anyone who isn't a warlock. It's not '30 turns' but like 13 minutes, total, I think.

Oh. That's not very good, then. Should be increased, but I wouldn't count it as the 'buff' enchantment needs. Just something that should also be done.

[Wytchee]

I'm still keen on a soft bonus to social skills. +5 per focus for persuade, taunt/intimidate, and bluff/perform (I think appraise would be a bit much, though). It makes sense that someone who specializes in muddling minds would know how to manipulate others, to some extent. This broadens enchantment's appeal both mechanically and roleplay-wise, and benefits every class that might want to specialize in the school, particularly bards.

[Kenji]

I'm still keen on a soft bonus to social skills. +5 per focus for persuade, taunt/intimidate, and bluff/perform (I think appraise would be a bit much, though). It makes sense that someone who specializes in muddling minds would know how to manipulate others, to some extent. This broadens enchantment's appeal both mechanically and roleplay-wise, and benefits every class that might want to specialize in enchantment.

Maybe make Divination foci increase appraise instead. Enchantment foci still get the rest of the social skill increases.

[Hunter548]

-read. They can be anywhere on the server. You send -read to a player. Lasts turns p/caster level. For the duration of the spell you are telepathically able to hear everything the player says and hears, sent to you as server messages. Sending -read again will stop you from reading that player's mind. Mind wards would prevent the -read from taking place, but won't stop it once it has begun. Only another character with ESF can tell they are being read, similar to how ESF divination allows one to know they are being scried.

Doesn't do much in the ways of mechanical power, but RP-wise would be very powerful. Would make enchanters terribly feared for reasons other than corpse-bashing you.

This is an immensely better version of -scry, for what it's worth.

[Dr_Hazard89]

-read. They can be anywhere on the server. You send -read to a player. Lasts turns p/caster level. For the duration of the spell you are telepathically able to hear everything the player says and hears, sent to you as server messages. Sending -read again will stop you from reading that player's mind. Mind wards would prevent the -read from taking place, but won't stop it once it has begun. Only another character with ESF can tell they are being read, similar to how ESF divination allows one to know they are being scried.

Doesn't do much in the ways of mechanical power, but RP-wise would be very powerful. Would make enchanters terribly feared for reasons other than corpse-bashing you.

This is an immensely better version of -scry, for what it's worth.

In the past when I complained that scry was not useful for spying because of the short duration I was told it's intended purpose is more for finding people. This would not help you find anyone, but it's intended purpose would be to spy. So in a way, it isn't like scry at all. It fills the niche scry does not, and does not touch the niche scry fills in the slightest.

[Wytchee]

Scry is immensely disappointing. It needs a more reliable counterpart. But let's not derail the thread ^^;

We're talking enchantment here.

I will reiterate my frustration with enchantment being "that school you will feel really bad for not taking, yet is still more or less useless for anything other than the enchantment basin." That's why I fall on the side of decoupling the basin from enchantment itself. But that's another discussion as well. Enchantment, basin or no, needs some boons as presently divination does everything it does (that is, in the way of stuns/holds) but better.

[Dorkas]

My idea is to let enchanters apply the heal skill to items again, hehe xD

[Dr_Hazard89]

I understand. My suggestion is for enchantment not for divination. I was only outlining how they do not step on each others toes.

Maybe rounds instead of turns now that I think about it. Turns is a lot.

[Opustus]

Could simply add effects to certain high-level spells for reliability. Tweaking lower level spells might be difficult because it might boost Feylocks too hard. Confusion and Balagarn are good spells, but don't really warrant taking the focuses.

Dominates are good, generally, for making tough mobs into thralls. A minor buff to duration might not be a bad idea, except that it might effectively make summons available to Spellswords.

Mass charm: Make it two will saving throws, one for Charmed and the other for Entangle/Immobilize. This makes the spell as a disabler more reliable, because the target needs to have both Freedom and Mind immune for immunity.

[Poolbrain]

Just make it impossible to drink potions while dazed.

-pray is also super powerful , I guess that's for tuning epic mages down a bit in this low magic item setting which is fair. Its not like sorcs/wiz are anywhere near underpowered no matter the school.