PG-13 Rule

[Revelations]

IDK what point you’re trying to make by try to make clean franchises look like they’re not exactly that.

It’s all implied. You never see realistic brutality, or sexual content.

Fact is, of course these troubling themes are there, but it’s never graphic.

And that’s what PG 13 is about.

I was giving examples of franchises that are in a similar context, with compelling stories, while the screenplay (or the writing) is graphically clean. To imply you can use them as examples for your own RP.

So what was your mission here? I really don’t understand.

[The GrumpyCat]

There's two points really.

1) That no, these things arn't entirely clean. I mean, some examples are more graphic than others true- but it's still there. But reading back you did say 'Graphic' so I suppose my point is a little redundant.

2) There's also an interesting point to be made that comparing a group of film franchises, with a situation that is purely literary, is a bit odd. This is very key. Because what is graphic in a book, and what is graphic in a film is different and it's also a little hard to quantify.

Lets take maiming.

In Star Wars, there are examples of maiming a plenty. But as you say, they are relitivly clean. You don't get to see spurts of blood really, or hear the prolonged, agonizing howles of the protagonist.

Likewise in Arelith a lot of the rating difference is not actually on the act, but also on how the act is written.

Further more the rating system is a bit wierd, as again - when you get down to it the roleplay here is not in a visual medium. It's in a written medium. It's far more like reading a story. And when was the last time you saw a book (that wasn't erotica) with a rating on it?

You can get away with a lot more in written medium than you can with a visual one, and often it's not so much the content, but how the content is presented.

Here's a good example.

*Pulls off his clothing and steps into the bath tub.* - is perfectly fine and PG13, even though technicaly it includes full frontal male nudity, which is most certainly not PG13 in a film. But there's no descriptive here, no detail, we presume he's nude, but we don't get anatomical details, or things he's doing with said bits of anatomy. Which is for the best. If there were more details, then it would take a step away from being PG13.

Of course there are some subjects (sex, basicaly) which should not be described in any way what so ever.

And yes, there's anentire sociological debate to be had here about how our society glorfies/allows acts of violence and yet condemns the simple act of human procration ect ect ect ect... and those are interesting points to make and all, but at the end of the day it is as it is, and for whatever reason most parents feel far more comfortable having their children watch violent fights with implied mutilation, than the idea that two people made love. Fair? Maybe not. But it is as it is.

The jist is - in the written medium certainly you can get away with a lot, a lot more than film even, just be thoughtful about how things are described.

And yes, as others have pointed out Re: Torture - keep a good dialogue with the other player. Make sure they're comfortable at all times with things going on, and try not to make anything too graphic.

[Revelations]

1. OK

2. I don't really think screenplay and writing are that hard to compare, when it gets to "graphic" (i.e. explicit) content.

Not graphic in writing:

*takes of clothes and goes into the bathtub*

Graphic in writing:

*<something about peepees>*

Not graphic in movies:

Guess you'll see someone take off their clothes, and at the very best (worst?) see them from behind, or just their head. Or nothing until they're in the bathtub.

Graphic in movies:

Peepees


GrumpyCat, I think, we actually agree.

[Sea Shanties]

I think the delivery and the tone has a lot to do with whether certain things cross the line or not.

An Adult Swim cartoon or even a prime time show like Family Guy can get away with an awful lot of extreme violence and innuendo while still being safe for basic cable. Or think how much comic violence something like Monty Python and the Holy Grail has while still being rated "PG." Not saying you should play everything for laughs but I think if you figure a way to play something like a cannibalistic gnoll with a darkly comic bent you'll do a lot better than if you're dead serious.

Of course this is a skill you have to have in your writing and if you're not there yet it's best not to push boundaries until you are. But some of the best "extreme" stuff I've seen on Arelith has been done in a rather lighthearted way.

[Liareth]

The server is already overflowing with degenerates (as someone observed earlier) - relax the rules and people will start ERPing on the streets!

In general I'm a fan of the "PG13 in public, up to you in private" setup. Arelith is just a form of entertainment. Like any other, sex, in the right circumstances, can make it more interesting and fun. I understand that there are concerns about players under the age of 16 playing, but IMO the responsibility to avoid engaging in adult situations should belong to these players (and their parents), just like it would elsewhere on the internet.

I've noticed that there an unspoken tendency in some circles to fades-to-black then "finish the job" elsewhere through mediums that are not Arelith. This is troubling because it results in a layer of character development that cannot be referenced directly in RP on the server. Relaxing the rule in private situations would fix this problem.

While changing the rule would make my experience better, I don't think it would improve the experience of most players. I share concerns that it would negatively impact the culture on the server over time so I can't advocate changing it. And even if I could, I don't think the PG13 rule will ever change. The support for it is too strong, especially amongst the leadership.

edit: Oh, and regarding violence - it's pretty difficult to violate the PG13 rule with violence alone because western culture thinks graphic violence, murder, and death is good and fine, while sex is bad and scary. As I see it, this question is more about sex than it is graphic violence.

[Revelations]

edit: Oh, and regarding violence - it's pretty difficult to violate the PG13 rule with violence alone because western culture thinks graphic violence, murder, and death is good and fine, while sex is bad and scary. As I see it, this question is more about sex than it is graphic violence.

Western, i.e. American.

It's the other way around in Europe.

[flower]

Making softer pg13? Well, don't we already have many slaves of type "young pretty X girl.."?


If it was the way Liarath wrote (ie pg13+ in public only) we would certainly see new role for slaves and boom in number of female slaves.


And many people around were exposed to interaction of kind "you become my slave or die" already.

[Echohawk]

From my knowledge of the server's history, this is mostly targeted at sexy elven fun times (wait did that just change my words from covert sexy elven fun times, lol yes it did anyway) interactions due to previous damaging roleplay that involved a minor. I don't know names, nor was around at that time. So what should have been perhaps an obvious rule to start with, needed teeth hence why it is a thing.

Obviously there's a lot of weiiiiiird stuff that goes on anyway in 'spite' of this rule. Torture, gore, birth, death, rituals, wounds and so on and so forth. Especially in the innately darker aspects of the roleplaying climates and populations. (The Underdark is rather a given.) While this rule probably could and does apply to that the real weight for the PG-13 really comes from the more intimate interactions that basically just need to stay off Arelith simply put.

Nothing about laws or censorship, more about avoiding the sexytimes and the moral/interpersonal/regional and all other awkward complications that can lead to.
But if one is ever concerned about the content I myself ask whoever I'm around (or in turn they ask my permission) asking: "What are you comfortable with?"
And better still if there's even a concern over something being too visceral you can dial it back with the fantastic examples by DM Grumpycat.

@OP: Unfortunately - this isn't a matter that will be discussed unless you want to take it up with the DM team a whole and the Admins of the site and server. Elaboration is probably the best you'll get, unless you have specific 'is this acceptable' probes.

[-XXX-]

I think that the PG-13 is OK. Addressing this limitation boils down to creativity for the most part.
Let's break it down into points aside from the main reason - that the server should still remain a safe space for younger players even if the vast majority of its player base probably consist of adults at this point:

• Harsh language - the Forgotten Realms culture allows for a plethora of ways to curse and call someone names in a way that a RL person would find more funny rather than outright offensive. If you cannot help but to use RL profanities IC, it's often more of a sign that it might be a smart thing to log off for a bit, than anything else, really.

• Graphic violence and explicit sexual content - even if we omit the fact that not everyone finds the notion of either detailed violence or straight up pornography fun or tasteful, there's another more practical aspect to this matter with regards to RP. Keeping things implied leaves more room for interpretation and more options for other players to react in different ways. This makes the situation more interactive and inclusive for all involved players, while leaving them outs that they can take seamlessly in character rather than forcing them to hit the breaks in tells should things get out of hand.

[Mithreas]

The simplest guidance here is usually the best.

Imagine the people you are playing with are, behind the screen, 13 year old kids. Don't type anything you wouldn't want their parents to read over their shoulder.

I find that a very effective way of calibrating what I put explicitly into RP.

[Brandon Steel]

Not really a fan of anything in the realms of “sexy elven fun times” but I’d really have no problem wth some other themes being allowed. It does feel weird with some monster races considering there’d be some serious 18+ crap going on that I feel like I might be breaching. Eating other races, torture, etc. Seems like it’s allowed if it’s rather tasteful but I am always a bit worried.

[TroubledWaters]

• Harsh language - the Forgotten Realms culture allows for a plethora of ways to curse and call someone names in a way that a RL person would find more funny rather than outright offensive. If you cannot help but to use RL profanities IC, it's often more of a sign that it might be a smart thing to log off for a bit, than anything else, really.

I generally play scummy characters with bad manners who use bad language. I find the made up swear words can sometimes sound funny or outright stupid, akin to Battlestar Galactica. Sometimes, this is not really the emotion I am trying to convey with my character and I prefer to use real swear words.

Bad language has its uses in storytelling and not every character talks "nice". You'll hear unsavory language in PG-13 movies, including the F word.

With all that said, I think the PG-13 rule is great for banning E.R.P. and the like- I'm definitely not playing a videogame to have to sit and read elf/gnome erotica.

[The GrumpyCat]

Bad language has its uses in storytelling and not every character talks "nice". You'll hear unsavory language in PG-13 movies, including the F word.

Just to make the ruling clear on this....
You're fine to use any swear that is heard in the voice sets of the NWN charcters
(e.g. Bloody, Damn, Hells, ect)

You should really avoid anything stronger.

The F Word is right out. Please don't use that.

[-XXX-]

"What kind of a stray mongrel would dare to question my enlightened point?! Beshaba kisses the filthy mouths of all scummy curs with questionable heritage who'd dare to utter the words that would make even the harlots from the streets of Sigil blush! Pox on them and their degenerate ways!"
<3

[flower]

"Your mother sew socks!"

[-XXX-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lom7Xwv6agc

[TroubledWaters]

Just to make the ruling clear on this....
You're fine to use any swear that is heard in the voice sets of the NWN charcters
(e.g. Bloody, Damn, Hells, ect)

You should really avoid anything stronger.

The F Word is right out. Please don't use that.

I get it, but this seems a little more PG than PG-13. Are we really supposed to avoid "Bitch Queen"?

[flower]

Each time I ride home from night shift busses are full of ten years kids. They use even words we have not known back twenty years ago. We evenwere shy to swear at public when we were ten years kids. It makes us feel so old lol.

Even now when time taught me is better to swear as much as you can in work when things go down the hill, we lack in work half of their rich dictionary. I don't believe current kids can learn things from us quite contrary

[Baron Saturday]

I've always been of the opinion that the PG-13 rule is there more for the protection of the server from angry parents than anything else! Sure, the kids might know all the words already, but if a parent reading over their kids shoulder sees objectionable material, they're the one that might freak and take action.

Long story short: The PG-13 rules helps keep us out of all sorts of potentially unpleasant situations, ICly annd OOCly.

[Nitro]

PG13 movies can drop a single F-bomb in the entire movie without jumping to a PG15 rating. So I like to keep one F-bomb per character for a suitably dramatic moment.

[Dalek Caan]

I was thirteen when I started playing here. My characters were established members of the abyssal forces (yes, that was a thing).

There was a ~lot~ of violent rp, Torture, executions, etc. However, I never felt uncomfortable because everyone was so in line of what was expected that we'd rather check with the person involved in these moments to see if they're comfortable. We never needed any impressions of gore or excruciating pain, there are many, many ways to play an interrogation, a torture scene, murder, executions or war which are absolutely tasteful and still give you the chills.

[Orian_666]

PG-13 doesn't mean it has to be all sunshine and rainbows, it's not like you're expected to RP as a Carebear otherwise you get banned.
PG-13 does allow for some serious subjects to be tackled but it expects them to be handled with a bit of grace and finesse.

For example the movie Limitless is PG-13 and that has sex, drugs, violence, you name it. It's all there, it's just not as "graphic" as a non PG-13 movie with similar content.

Everything you stated you'd like to see in the game are possible to do, you just gotta be a bit tasteful in how you do it. It's not rocket surgery, people have been doing it on the server for years now without getting in trouble, because they've been doing it the right way.

PG-13 rule is fine, it makes things inclusive and doesn't put /too many/ limitations on players that want to play things a bit gritty.

[dominantdrowess]

For the record, people worried about PG-13: The movie "Taken" is PG-13. Forced drug overdoses, human trafficking, implied rape, kidnapping, slavery, sex-slave auctions, continuous graphic violence... including the protagonist SHOOTING a perfectly innocent woman as leverage against a crooked police chief.

World War Z, The Ring, Titanic (you remember that car scene), Ace Ventura Pet Detective (srsly), Casino Royale (omg -- the torture scene with the monkey's fist rope thing, absolutely bare naked in the chair), Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me (lmfao), Poltergeist, Insidious, Mortal Kombat (graphic fatalities), The Grudge, Drag Me To Hell, Kull The Conquerer, Conan The Destroyer, The Possession ...

[Cerk Evermoore]

The thirteen year old kid i imagine is trying to sneak into a rated R films and keeps trying to get me to buy his friends beer and cigarettes. His mom on the other hand, oh jeeze!

[WinkinBlinkin]

Jaws was a PG. I went to see it in the cinema age 2. No damage done there, then.