On PVP Target Selection and Hostile Capabilities

[Sartain]

If PvP was dependent on neutral parties leaving first it would be exploitable. Any group who wants to avoid PvP just get a neutral friend to hang around and refuse to leave. I hope people here are better than that but judging from the passive aggressive stuff I see posted by veterans all the time I guess they probably aren't.

[Seekeepeek]

ALTERNATIVELY, AND LOGICALLY: What you should expect:
You should expect that people warn bystanders beforehand in large-scale conflict that a fight is about to start, and that they should vacate the area. You should expect that bystanders who don't want to participate (or die) should have the common sense necessary to heed this courteous warning from the combatants, and actually leave the area as suggested. (This is precisely what happened in the Hub on March 22nd):



Note that this proves that people did in fact have time to respond and leave. Those who remained did so willingly and deliberately, and hence have little to blame but themselves for their subsequent deaths.

People also have time to come into such a public area. wouldn't want to be the guy who's loading into an area and met with a hellball, not having seen any of your warnings at all... the chance for that happening is extremely high in areas with such high traffic.

[Sartain]

In regards to PvP in the Hub, wouldn't that technically fall under the 'settlement raid' category?

[Hexgoblin]

I like conflict, and believe it a core component of what drives a dynamic roleplaying environment. It amplifies stakes. Makes IC achievements doubly worthwhile, through the possibility of setbacks due to opposition.

Here's a factoid, though. Nobody who'd advocate for the use of a Hellball in a commonly crowded, unaligned area has drawn a single nasal breath throughout their corporeal life.

Good day.

[Sockss]

I like conflict, and believe it a core component of what drives a dynamic roleplaying environment. It amplifies stakes. Makes IC achievements doubly worthwhile, through the possibility of setbacks due to opposition.

Here's a factoid, though. Nobody who'd advocate for the use of a Hellball in a commonly crowded, unaligned area has drawn a single nasal breath throughout their corporeal life.

Good day.

+1

[Pav]

I like conflict, and believe it a core component of what drives a dynamic roleplaying environment. It amplifies stakes. Makes IC achievements doubly worthwhile, through the possibility of setbacks due to opposition.

Here's a factoid, though. Nobody who'd advocate for the use of a Hellball in a commonly crowded, unaligned area has drawn a single nasal breath throughout their corporeal life.

Good day.

Agreed. Very succinct and accurate summary of my own thoughts.

[DM Atropos]

As the rest of what I said seems to have mysteriously vanished, understand this:
You must wait for interactive RP.

Does that mean EVERY PERSON from BOTH SIDES has to respond? No. That would be a waste of time. But you must attempt interactive RP. That means you say "Hey buddy you might wanna run because crazy is about to descend and it's gonna get messy" and you have to give them time to respond.
Whether that response is "OMG CRAP" and they run like a headless chicken, or "Lol can't hurt me" or to continue browsing wordlessly doesn't matter. You've done your due diligence. Some people type slow. You HAVE to give time for a response. If you're so quick on the trigger a slow typer can't respond, you need to re-evaluate the importance you put on 'winning'.

Also? What Hex said is spot on.

[Red Ropes]

I like conflict, and believe it a core component of what drives a dynamic roleplaying environment. It amplifies stakes. Makes IC achievements doubly worthwhile, through the possibility of setbacks due to opposition.

Here's a factoid, though. Nobody who'd advocate for the use of a Hellball in a commonly crowded, unaligned area has drawn a single nasal breath throughout their corporeal life.

Good day.

B&R

[The Kriv]

maybe then, the training wheels, kid-gloves need to come off in regards to AoE spells.

NO PARTY-FRIENDLY AOE. -if a caster is going to sling spells into large groups, they have to either aim carefully, or risk killing their own.

[Sartain]

maybe then, the training wheels, kid-gloves need to come off in regards to AoE spells.

NO PARTY-FRIENDLY AOE. -if a caster is going to sling spells into large groups, they have to either aim carefully, or risk killing their own.

I'm honestly baffled this isn't already implemented

[Sockss]

In regards to PvP in the Hub, wouldn't that technically fall under the 'settlement raid' category?

Yes it was made very clear that any place with an NPC population would be considered a settlement and therefore be subject to DM oversight for any pre-meditated group pvp, with particular enforcement focus on server hubs.

[Pavor Nocturnus]

I like conflict, and believe it a core component of what drives a dynamic roleplaying environment. It amplifies stakes. Makes IC achievements doubly worthwhile, through the possibility of setbacks due to opposition.

Here's a factoid, though. Nobody who'd advocate for the use of a Hellball in a commonly crowded, unaligned area has drawn a single nasal breath throughout their corporeal life.

Good day.

Let this be clear.

[RapidReload]

As someone who's toon doesn't start fights in heavily populated areas, if someone attacks me in a well populated area, rest assured I won't be wasting time scrolling through the server list, it's -hostile and circle 9 spells. The burden should fall on the aggressor in that situation

[RandomhouseAudio]

Okay. So. Once again this is a lot of people detracting from the point.

Yes. The incident in the hub is what sparked this idea.

No. It isnt the only situation a think a tool like this woulf be useful for.

I don't care what specific context either side has for their version of what happened. I only care about possibly creating tools to help eliminate or mitigate part of the problem.

If this devolves into 'This one time in the hub' then I think this should be locked.

[CptJonas]

Ohhh...common...there are so many crybabies...
You are doing like this happens every week...this case is here like what? 2 to 3 timess per year at max? You didnt listen to warning and got killed in crossfire? So what? You died...and? Like you didnt die other day on stingers when server wass laggy or you missclikcked...
You are doing like this is some tragedy, genocide, or world ending problem...

And from my point...PVP and be nice rule, is here to stop griefing other players and stop someone from killing you on road for no reason an withow warning...
Not to protect you when you got into middle of two battle ready groups who even warned you...
Thats your mistake..not theirs...

[Sockss]

Okay. So. Once again this is a lot of people detracting from the point.

Yes. The incident in the hub is what sparked this idea.

No. It isnt the only situation a think a tool like this woulf be useful for.

I don't care what specific context either side has for their version of what happened. I only care about possibly creating tools to help eliminate or mitigate part of the problem.

If this devolves into 'This one time in the hub' then I think this should be locked.

Unfortunately your suggestions don't mitigate or eliminate the problem.

You can already selectively hostile by sending ! as a tell and the suggestion for hostiling a party opens up considerable meta information abuse, while also not addressing the issue of people simply dropping parties.

I believe this is why the discussion has moved on, to try and address the real problem, which is problem players and lack of corrective measures / enforcement.

If you adhere to rules and are behaving in an inclusive and fair way (/being nice), hostiling people is not a problem.

[Sockss]

Ohhh...common...there are so many crybabies...
You are doing like this happens every week...this case is here like what? 2 to 3 timess per year at max? You didnt listen to warning and got killed in crossfire? So what? You died...and? Like you didnt die other day on stingers when server wass laggy or you missclikcked...
You are doing like this is some tragedy, genocide, or world ending problem...

And from my point...PVP and be nice rule, is here to stop griefing other players and stop someone from killing you on road for no reason an withow warning...
Not to protect you when you got into middle of two battle ready groups who even warned you...
Thats your mistake..not theirs...

People like this are the problem, who for some reason don't see the problem with no RP bashing someone in a server hub.

Wew.

[RandomhouseAudio]

Mkay.

Shut it down.

Lock the thread.

This thread isn't here to become complaintfest 89024 about 'these players being bad and needing punishment' or 'these players need to stop whining.'

This is why we can't have nice things.

If a DM could lock this that would be fantastic. I don't expect any further constructive discussion.

[Born on a mountain, raised in a cave]

Ohhh...common...there are so many crybabies...
You are doing like this happens every week...this case is here like what? 2 to 3 timess per year at max? You didnt listen to warning and got killed in crossfire? So what? You died...and? Like you didnt die other day on stingers when server wass laggy or you missclikcked...
You are doing like this is some tragedy, genocide, or world ending problem...

And from my point...PVP and be nice rule, is here to stop griefing other players and stop someone from killing you on road for no reason an withow warning...
Not to protect you when you got into middle of two battle ready groups who even warned you...
Thats your mistake..not theirs...

I have some small trouble following this line of thought. Because playerdeath happens often we should simply not care about it anymore? I cannot say I rightly understand your meaning.

[O-H41]

I like the idea of a hostiler widget that allows you to click people as hostile, but I don’t think it’d work quickly enough. Many players are quick on the trigger finger and those my character has fought will surround a portal (particularly somewhere busy like Andunor’s Hub), and they will give the one line of dialogue prior to attack after I cross into a transition where they are. I’ve unfortunately been caught a few times typing when the attack starts – it’s not a great feeling. I'd feel the same about clicking on select people to hostile and the fight beginning while I'm still clicking.

I agree the thread needs a lock. It's pretty derailed.

[Queen Titania]

I think that the PvP mentality of the server has to change.

This needs to happen regardless of any dev changes to any PvP tools. No mechanically change will fix the greater problem of player mentality. This is thus sadly a player problem that cannot be solved by anyone but players.

TL:DR: Shouting to vacate or you will kill everyone is extremely stupid and is not considered satisfactory interactive RP. Doing this and using a spell such as a hellball can risk a coaching or a ban.

Please drop the must-win mentality. Find gratification in the narrative and mutual enjoyment instead.

I'm going to go ahead and lock.