Visuals for Wards - Love 'em or Hate 'em?

[xanrael]

Going to echo Eters, I'm not sure that it would decrease PvP.

Generally I think that has more to do with the demographics of types of players on Arelith and the ruleset behind conflict, loss, death, and resurrection.

There might be changes to how conflict is initiated, but I think there would be as many pros and cons to the current setup.

[DangerDolphin]

I dislike them, I can't even tell the difference between a Drow and an elf until examining.

Would like the old status icons back but subject to Spot/Lore/Spellcraft/etc checks to get accurate information.

At least I think, only spells that last for rounds/level should have vfx, not ones that last turns or hours.

[matheusgraef]

I agree most wards special effects should be removed or toned down.

It's just so jarring to see a character with a crown and a shroud of yellow, red and white sparkles, a green circle under their feet and a bunch of ARCANE EYES hovering over their heads just idly buying some water from the local peddler lol.

Let's remember none of these spells are supposed to have a visual effect like that - at least they don't in Forgotten Realms. It was added to NWN purely for a more mechanical/visual approach during gameplay but it's safe to assume a RP heavy server like Arelith doesn't really benefit from it, as the general feedback of this thread proves the point that most people are unsatisfied with how the visual effects are right now.

I've had thoughts about this and I'm glad to read through the thread and find some people have thought and expressed these before me, but I'll share them anyway.

Some ideas:

Have it so a high Spellcraft allows someone to identify which buffs are active.

Keep Shield and other arcane shrouds (death armor, acid sheath, etc).

Not sure if I like the Aura effects either. "Well, all's fine. As long as I don't cross this threshold I suppose I won't be afraid of the ancient dragon that is 31 feet away from me."

Maybe use the monk/warlock eye glow for spells like True Seeing or See Invisibility, as stated by another user in this thread.

I think Stoneskin and Barkskin should be kept, even if they look fugly.

Lastly, probably hard to implement but have it so diviners can actually see the wards. This would be a game changer and all these visual cues would suddenly make sense IC.

---

To conclude: in a server where WYSIWYG is mostly rule, the place where magic visuals sit right now leaves a lot of cloudy jurisdiction regarding what should and shouldn't be interpreted, and how. So are the floaty eyes canon? Does everyone know when a character is able to See Invisibility then? What about other wards? My point is that all this ambiguity and gray area isn't beneficial to the experience Arelith seeks to achieve. I believe such a change would better set the developers' intentions in stone, and grant the community with a more immersive experience and greater rewards for their characters' skills and feats.

[Brahtius]

I dislike them, I can't even tell the difference between a Drow and an elf until examining.

Would like the old status icons back but subject to Spot/Lore/Spellcraft/etc checks to get accurate information.

At least I think, only spells that last for rounds/level should have vfx, not ones that last turns or hours.

How do you roleplay this though? As someone who mains a character with a pirate tattoo I can tell you that description box roleplay is god awful. If there are no visual or audio effects for wards then how does your character know?

Cordor Guard Player - *Checks description box and see many, many wards listed*
"Excuse me sir, could you dispel your wards in town please?"

Player with wards - "What wards? I don't see any wards."

Cordor Guard Player - "Well sir the description box says you're fully warded. I know this because I beat the spellcraft check"

....

[matheusgraef]

I dislike them, I can't even tell the difference between a Drow and an elf until examining.

Would like the old status icons back but subject to Spot/Lore/Spellcraft/etc checks to get accurate information.

At least I think, only spells that last for rounds/level should have vfx, not ones that last turns or hours.

How do you roleplay this though? As someone who mains a character with a pirate tattoo I can tell you that description box roleplay is god awful. If there are no visual or audio effects for wards then how does your character know?

Cordor Guard Player - *Checks description box and see many, many wards listed*
"Excuse me sir, could you dispel your wards in town please?"

Player with wards - "What wards? I don't see any wards."

Cordor Guard Player - "Well sir the description box says you're fully warded. I know this because I beat the spellcraft check"

....

Partly agree with you but that's not to say a big wooden sign written "NO WARDS INSIDE THE TOWN!!!" isn't already pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

If these VFX got removed, in the long run, it's logical to assume the community would simply adapt to treating wards differently.

[Nevrus]

I'm good at making clothes and want people to see them

There is no other reason I need to want the texture-overriding wards obliterated

The game is much less visually interesting when it's a series of differently sized statues punching everything, every dungeon, every time

[matheusgraef]

Here's a party. Grukag the Barbarian, Zara'slaefassir the Elf GF and "Assassin (Disguised)" the Edgelord 26/Bard 4:



Now here's the same party, venturing a dungeon.

[Nevrus]

Here's a party. Grukag the Barbarian, Zara'slaefassir the Elf GF and "Assassin (Disguised)" the Edgelord 26/Bard 4:



Now here's the same party, venturing a dungeon.

This entire thread was worth it for that picture, thank you so much

[Kalopsia]

Cordor Guard Player - *Checks description box and see many, many wards listed*
"Excuse me sir, could you dispel your wards in town please?"

Player with wards - "What wards? I don't see any wards."

....

How about something like:

Cordorian Guardsman: “You won’t fool me! I have studied magic at the Arcane Tower five years ago, and I can tell you with certainty that the air around you hums with magic. Now get rid of these wards, or leave the city. I won’t repeat myself.”

I agree with your point about pirate tattoos - but detecting magic is definitely a thing in Forgotten Realms, whether it’s visible or not. :)

[Cerk Evermoore]

Visible wards are important because they broadcast to observers intent quite easily. If you see a fully warded group of players wandering around together. That's the first sign of trouble. Especially in UD if you see two fully warded groups standing off, you probably should leave the area if your character values their life.

If people walked around fully warded all day, it's really going to ruin the server dynamics. Some people are really powerful and the only chance some of these players have at actually winning is to attack an unwarded target at full strength fully warded. Not to mention this will be a massive nerf to assassins who already have a hard time soloing targets in back alleyways.

Is it so much better for RP when players are going. "EXCUSE ME FOR A SECOND!" <Casts 15 buff spells on himself in the middle of town roleplay> "NO ORC WILL EVER SNEAK UP ON ME!"

Multiply that situation 100 times across the whole server and the situation will quickly get ridiculous. Also you shouldn't RP having Spellcraft without having spellcraft.

[Hazard]

Also you shouldn't RP having Spellcraft without having spellcraft.

<3

[Eters]

Currently there are wards that are invisible, Mage armor, Zoo spells, Death ward, Camouflage/One with land, Negative energy protection, etc etc... These wards are already strong in their own, and allow people to be more or less "warded a minimum" when going around their business.

To remove visual wards from people is to allow people to use shadow shield, premonition, mind wards, seeing wards, Freedom of movement, spell resistance, etc etc etc at all times... As stated earlier It would remove the ability to counter play people by catching the off-guard. Our RP is already shaped by the facts that wards are visible, because wards convey intent, an IC intent that this person is either : Wary and cautious in this area, doesn't trust you, or wants to turn you into mincemeat. and OOC, it allows you to calm your nerves a bit (actually, quite the inverse and panic like hell) knowing that you're about to fight.

I would perhaps overall agree that some spell VFX should be toned down or removed the sake of performance, Protection from good/evil, Circle against good/evil, Resist element/Protection against elements/Energy buffer (With defensive essences already being a thing, we all assume our elemental damage output will be low regardless, and they tank on the FPS heavily, also, noisy as hell.) But to remove the effects from see invisibility/Ultravision/FoM/Mind ward/Spell resistance/ (I would go as far as say that NEP and Death ward need to be visible in some shape or form, but whatever).

Those are strategic spells, that allow for strategic counters, which give PvP it's whole flexibility, scenarios like "I was going to use weird, but this person seems warded for it, so I'll use a mord instead and breach it, or I'll target his reflex as he doesn't seem to have FoM." or "There is no ultravision, I can use darkness to gain an edge." or "There is no see invisibility, I can drink a potion to break LoS and sneak away." will become "Well here goes the weird/darkness/invisibility , I hope he isn't warded for it." turning every encounter/PvP/fight into a big russian roulette rather than something that requires thinking and skill.

[Ork]

Remove the vfx for stoneskin and barkskin. Could care less about any others. Just look at menter's picture if it didn't have stoneskin — you'd see the detail of the outfit. Even still, If you're not starting an engagement with mords, I don't know what to tell you.

[Eters]

I'd like to see you start a fight with a Mord on a hasted weapon master, or a barbarian, or any melee class that can come close to you in mere instants, see how long you last.

Barkskin and Stoneskin aren't too big of an issue, I suppose them being visible matters little, perhaps have greater stoneskin appear as the large floating stone around people as it's significantly more useful than the lesser one.

[Cerk Evermoore]

Eters said my exact point in much better detail. Especially

Those are strategic spells, that allow for strategic counters, which give PvP it's whole flexibility, scenarios like "I was going to use weird, but this person seems warded for it, so I'll use a mord instead and breach it, or I'll target his reflex as he doesn't seem to have FoM." or "There is no ultravision, I can use darkness to gain an edge." or "There is no see invisibility, I can drink a potion to break LoS and sneak away." will become "Well here goes the weird/darkness/invisibility , I hope he isn't warded for it." turning every encounter/PvP/fight into a big russian roulette rather than something that requires thinking and skill.

[Diilicious]

Should just have an "-effects" command in chat so that if you dont like them, dont have them, no reason people that do like them shouldnt have them.

[RedGiant]

We need Arelith T-Shirts with this art....I'm thinking unwarded in the front, warded in the back. Would so rock that...