Arcane Archer - Craft Arrow Bundle?

[The Kriv]

bolstered by another topic...

So many of the Arcane Archer class abilities are just poorly implemented. For example... Arrow of Death.

The ability is intended to penetrate Damage Reduction, according to the Arcane Archer's Enchant Arrow onus, but due to a bug in the game, it doesn't.

Maybe a thing might be cool to be able to imbue upon a specific Arrow template that is usable only by Arcane Archer (with a UMD high enough to keep it prestige class ability only) -where you can use those arrow abilities:
IMBUE ARROW
SEEKER ARROW
HAIL OF ARROWS
ARROW OF DEATH...

...and be able to use them onto a bundle of arrows via a template to have a physical, equippable arrow with the ability on it.

Maybe the requirement of "EPIC AA" is required so that you can be certain at least that characters with at minimum of 11 AA levels, and 20 total character levels aren't walking around with a quiver full of DeathArrows.

And maybe by using a bundle to create the arrow.. you don't get 99 arrows... instead you get EXACTLY ONE arrow... so if you were going to horde up your ARROW OF DEATH's ... it would require you burn a full un-tapped bundle to make ONE... and you can only actually MAKE the one after a fresh rest... or in the case of Imbue Arrow... you can craft up as man of the exploding fire-ball arrows as you can by the ability... and then start building them into a pile of arrows for use at a later time... or all at once... and it doesn't suck up an ENTIRE ROUND to sling just one Imbue Arrow... it would actually be something you can use effectively in combat that doesn't become a liability.


---I open this up for discussion and comments.

This is kind of still 'concept' stage.. and I would like to get some healthy input before an actual suggestion is made.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

You might as well reactivate devastating criticals if we are going to be able to drink sleep ans horde a bunch of death arrows. AA hitting woth most attack PvP with at least 5% auto kill on every hit is more powerful than devastating critical.

Now for the other arrows, you MIGHT be on to something, considering there is grindable powerful ammunition already our there but that's also a trend people probably want to backtrack from not go further down. Personally i think a 10d6 fireball arrow vs arrow with dor different spells imbued via conplex template isnt that bad when reflex for half/no damage and still have to hit to begin with. It also might be a little cheesie/comical too though machine gunnijg fireballs

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I also wouldnt let template ans fireball arroes stack. Or give aa bundle making ability

[Ork]

It would be cool if AAs could make their own templates and apply properties based on their abilities. AAs don't lack in ab, but flavor wise it could be nice if they had special template abilities that made it easier to fill out a template.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

It would be cool if AAs could make their own templates and apply properties based on their abilities. AAs don't lack in ab, but flavor wise it could be nice if they had special template abilities that made it easier to fill out a template.

Something along those lines can be cool. You still don't have to give the create ammunition feat for that too. Just more template options. Allow potential ranger AA synergy.

[Subutai]

Honestly, I don't think templates or lack of abilities are things that really impact AAs. They're already a very good class. SD/AA is a class combo that can almost always hit whatever they're shooting at, and HiPS away before they have a chance to respond.

The problem AAs have is honestly almost exclusively their lack of arrows in general. Arrows cost way, way too many resources to craft, making AAs a stupidly tedious class to play compared to archer path, which conversely gets far more arrows than they'll ever use, for free, so they get to sell their extra ones for several thousand gold (giving archer path an automatic income of 2000+ gp per rest).

Rather than giving AA's new abilities, I very much think they should either get free arrow bundles like archer path, or even better, the resource/cp cost of arrow bundles should be half or a third of what it is now, and archer path should lose their free arrow ability.

There's absolutely no reason that one archery class should get practically unlimited ammo that they can sell or do whatever with, and the other one should be forced to spend a good 60-70% of their time just trying to find enough resources to make their build playable. It's utterly absurd, and completely unfair.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Honestly, I don't think templates or lack of abilities are things that really impact AAs. They're already a very good class. SD/AA is a class combo that can almost always hit whatever they're shooting at, and HiPS away before they have a chance to respond.

The problem AAs have is honestly almost exclusively their lack of arrows in general. Arrows cost way, way too many resources to craft, making AAs a stupidly tedious class to play compared to archer path, which conversely gets far more arrows than they'll ever use, for free, so they get to sell their extra ones for several thousand gold (giving archer path an automatic income of 2000+ gp per rest).

Rather than giving AA's new abilities, I very much think they should either get free arrow bundles like archer path, or even better, the resource/cp cost of arrow bundles should be half or a third of what it is now, and archer path should lose their free arrow ability.

There's absolutely no reason that one archery class should get practically unlimited ammo that they can sell or do whatever with, and the other one should be forced to spend a good 60-70% of their time just trying to find enough resources to make their build playable. It's utterly absurd, and completely unfair.

Well im taking 5 ranger levels for my aa (i know, very unoptimal) just for ammo so said change would extremely bone me. Ill probably just stop playing an archer altogether if im forced to craft bundles constantly. Im finally getting into one now. Still used melee with str 12 my first two writs lol.

[Subutai]

Well im taking 5 ranger levels for my aa (i know, very unoptimal) just for ammo so said change would extremely bone me. Ill probably just stop playing an archer altogether if im forced to craft bundles constantly. Im finally getting into one now. Still used melee with str 12 my first two writs lol.

I've heard this so many times. Every time I've ever asked almost anyone about archer builds, from the build forums, to friends who have played more, I've gotten essentially the same answer. "Play archer path, because AAs have to make their own arrows and it's not worth it". The more optimistic response I've gotten is, "AA is okay if you have help to craft or are willing to spend gold to buy rangers' arrows".

I don't think I've ever once seen anyone ever say, "AA is fun and arrows aren't tedious". As far as I've ever seen, the opinion about AA's being tedious and frustrating is virtually unanimous. Every single person I've ever talked to who has any experience with AA's has thought they were a tedious class to play, 100% because of the arrow issue.

I know Irongron has approved some kind of modification to the arrow recipe to make them cheaper, but as far as broken mechanics/abilities, I have to say that I can't think of many classes that garner as much universal dislike purely out of tedium as AA's. The arrow crafting on Arelith is entirely too much effort, as evidenced by the fact that whoever made archer path specifically built in a way for rangers to avoid it. It absolutely, unquestionably needs to be fixed. Not only to make AA's playable, but to make archery/ranged combat viable for any kind of build that isn't archer path. Ranger-archer should absolutely not be the only viable ranged build purely because of how mechanically tedious any other build is.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Well actaully with umd changes, it's really easy to fit 5 rsnger into AA builds since all you need is lore. It also gives you a few feats and olus 2 damage in range attacks.

I started off fighter so i did not have to put anything into wisdom first 3 levels then started tsking ranger archer path. Yeah a SD probably be a lot more versatile. Im all for making arrows easier for everyone but i feel bundle for ranger only keeps build options a bit more interesting for myself.

The main thing of this thread was more template options to nake aa imbue arrow abilities do more stuff though. Iron already stated about bundles keeping to rangers and making bundles possibly getting easier.

[Astral]

I try to look at it as a tax for playing archer. You have to at least multi-class ranger or suffer. How is that any different than the UMD meta that we all want back? You had been taxed to take rogue or bard in all of your builds.... or suffer. Now that UMD is not longer an issue, even more so there's no reason not to take ranger in your AA build because you got a 3rd free class (fighter) to spice your build and theme.

Any arrow related QoL buff we'd give AA will also be available to AA who did multiclass ranger, thus things will remain as they are - archer path is the best.... archer path.