Pirates and PvP

[Apothys]

Hey,

Had a lot of mentions of pirates being whacked for being in the wrong location at the wrong time and there is a general feeling of apathy about all constant bashing the pirates are recieving.

Now i know pirates are everyones favourite faction to hate as we are so easily identifiable, but if a pirate hasnt actually got a bounty on there head or wanted for some crime against a city then perhaps we shouldnt be bashing on them?

Even if they are, should we not be Rping with them first, clarifying identity, stating crimes against them, then some cool cops and robbers RP. Then if things escalate through rp so be it.

Same goes for criminal activity, state intent, wait for reponse, RP it see if one person/group can talk there way out of it, fun rp for all, then if it still escalates so be it. All im saying is this is supposed to be fun for everyone.

For example: I recently came across someone randomly who spotted my tattoos and said they had heard of me and had vowed to take my head for something they were told i had done. I tried to talk to the person stating i didnt want to fight and that what he heard was likely not the exact truth. He didnt care and ended the short conversation with "Enough of this, prepare to die" cutting short my attempts to rp with this stranger.

Now this individual had never met me before, there was no bounty on me head, just a bunch of tattoos and a percieved reputation. I didnt even get his name or who he was or what had been said in any detail... It was frustrating, but something ive gotten used too but i dont think that should be the case?

Whatever the reason for initiating a hostile encounter this shouldnt stop someone from RPing first and trying to make something out of it, i think thats the point im trying to make.

[Nitro]

I agree, I think any "Red vs Blue" tags in the description are dumb. They're a cheap way of skipping any interaction to establish actual notoriety or fame rather than actual roleplay. They polarize players because hey, why wouldn't your zealous crusader sworn to eradicate evil attack that person with known pirate tattoos?

As long as tags like these are in place, I don't think the hairpin PvP that they cause is going to go away. If anything I think it's going to keep getting worse as it gets more and more ingrained in server culture.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Also even if pirates are affiliated with boot legging, etc. Thats grounds for immediate arrest not murder. You can start as a pirate as a neutral character now. Unless a settlement has an ig policy/bounty on all affiliated with Sencliffe pirates, the guy is making up garbage through his teeth about a bounty on your head and should be taken to task on it.

[Bunny]

ive been thinking about a universal system such that any character could be played anywhere with justification given in game mechanics. A simple helm of opposite alignment could drive most of it but with pirates there really needs to address the instant hostile target issue. It breaks immersions and leads to superficial rp for pking. The UD seems flooded with surface chars and I've seen a fair bit of UD chars in skal but sencliff is usually empty. I usually find cordor empty or a drama fest. I never see pirate activity but when i tried it and i was alone or hunted instantly. I didnt even mean to be in cordor but there was no rping my arrival there with as quickly as i was hunted by the other side.

[Zavandar]

through roleplay, arelith's pirates have earned themselves a very bad reputation

there's piracy, and then there's conducting rituals in the nearby crypts alongside drow to try to ruin a city

despite this, not all pirates receive this treatment. there are some who have achieved enough renown to not receive "leave or die" treatment, because they don't do these things.

a little self-awareness goes a long way.

[Gobbo Champion Inc]

Even without taking IC history and the reputation and bad blood involved with Sencliff into consideration, Arelith is an island that depends on trade. Being a pirate is one of the worst things you can be in the eyes of coastal trade powers in the FR. If you are carrying Sencliff ink, you should expect severe issues. For many, Amn included, a pirate is worse then an outcast, because while outcasts might be murderers, fiend summoners, and necromancers, they are not tax cheats like smugglers are, or disruptors of trade like pirates are. (Though a great many pirates commit murder, and take part in slaving as well. So they are hardly just tax cheats, and trade disruptors)

[Apothys]

through roleplay, arelith's pirates have earned themselves a very bad reputation

there's piracy, and then there's conducting rituals in the nearby crypts alongside drow to try to ruin a city

despite this, not all pirates receive this treatment. there are some who have achieved enough renown to not receive "leave or die" treatment, because they don't do these things.

a little self-awareness goes a long way.

Im talking about all pirates, (not me specifically) and they way pirates are treated in general, PvP is not always the answer and it didnt need to be in the Ruins either, but thats a debate for another time.

[Zavandar]

you are responsible for this reputation

[Blood on my Lips]

The problem is not isolated to pirates. The same occurs for outcasts. The mechanical tags that were imposed on pirates and outcasts that were meant to invite RP opportunities are really only serving to initiate one or two line "Leave or die." PvP.

[Zavandar]

you need to RP like you have the tag, not RP whatever you want with a tag attached

[Red Ropes]

as someone who plays a character who has a very complicated consideration of sencliff and its denizens - i've always kept it ic and reacted to reputation, intention, and individual

of late i've had amazing encounters with new pirates who i chucked a bone to and was rewarded with great rp


though there are some who probably will have more hostile reactions, i've always kept it ic and based within those parameters of reputations for crews and individuals


there is however are VERY BIG IC activity which will not be named that a good chunk of people are doing which likely results in the whole "wow sencliff is filled with monsterous people" and its up to Sencliff and its own IC reflection without good or bad value to deal with that

i don't think the tattoo system does this, and nothing obligates anyone above or below to be a murderous psychopath


you reap what you sew (context this scene precedes the interaction of the two, being enemies, but since quarter and mercy was given - quarter and mercy was given back)


also; be responsible with your character decisions

there is very specific RP require for both outcasts and sencliff pirates, baseline, and that probably has a lot to do with it too

pirates forsake the political and settlement systems and have a little pirate conduct and oath

outcasts literally are supposed to account for being INTOLERABLE for the surface and have to be inventive and self aware of how they interact with the world at large

paladins who sign up with the radiant can't violate their code of conduct or commitments / become targets for their ideologic opposition and so forth

(and there are mechanical systems in place to hide all of these tags, playing characters who can't tag them, means you must adapt to that!)

[Kshatriya]

Also gonna throw in my part as a character who has gone out of their way to be a little rougher with the pirates.

I do try and truly give people opportunities when it comes to RP. A lot of times I've noticed there's lower level pirates in Cordor as of late. I've a feeling maybe they're there to try and do writs or something as I truly don't understand how convenient Sencliff may or may not be to leveling. Some of them have even at least on the surface tried to convey that they are remorseful and they've then been directed into ways they might prove it or simply given a slap on the wrist and told not to return.

Some characters however are unapologetic and despite having been given fair warning continue to return. Some of them even go so far out of line as to attack settlement members. And hey, that fine. It's all in RP. But the other pirates surely have to understand when they have members or associates who then go and cause this trouble, of course it is going to come back to them. It's going to make them even worse off than their initial reputation is. As Ropes posted, you reap what you sow.

There's a lot I think on an IC level that pirates could do to try and put on a better image for themselves, but at least thus far I don't feel as if the current leadership really seems intent on that.

[Party in the forest at midnight]

I think it's strange that NPCs react so harshly to outcasts and not pirates, when pirates are generally much more violent and likely to hurt people. Outcasts on the surface generally are non-violent. They might have ulterior motives and might be using people or spying, but they're usually not out to rob/kill people. In contrast, a lot of pirates are extremely aggressive and go out of their way to antagonize.

I'm not a fan of the tag system because it doesn't take these things into account, it's very rigid and doesn't represent what is actually happening in the game world. But, at the same time, I suppose this falls onto us as players ourselves-- We choose to be a pirate or outcast. We could just stop using these systems if we don't like them.

One of the richest things the server has to offer is cloak and dagger RP. I like atmospheres where people would need to do actual investigation to find wrongdoing rather than relying on a mechanic saying "this guy is a pirate" or "this guy is an outcast."

[Curve]

1) Your faction* did something and people react with PvP. Just the way it is. IC action = IC reaction

2) PvP with little RP is a bummer. It does not matter if your character is mad, or mean. Be cool.

3) Try to look at unknown pirates/outcasts/paladins/whatever as people who give you a bad feeling and deserve a second look or a talking to not the ULTIMATE ENEMY WHO DESERVES DEATH!

*I think the tags are silly. I like player created/controlled factions and not the opposite. I think Radiant Heart/Assassin Guild/Pirates/whatever stifle and pigeon hole RP.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

Regardless whether or not "leave or die" is good rp (not everyone is a pro rper after all) I think the right context is there. Its giving you a choice to walk away or get in a fight, which is likely what some flowery monologue would lead up to as well. I know playing a pirate from first hand experience is tough, but its also a choice. And when making that choice you have to understand you are going to have to take the good with the bad more often then just some cordor regular might.

[Bunny]

Its interesting how little of the weight the community puts on being a pirate is documented in the module. Additionally, its interesting how dramatically different that membership is approached to any other settlement.

[Cortex]

Most of these issues would vanish if we moved away from this "tag" philosophy.

[DangerDolphin]

IMO the solution is to make KOS illegal IC unless the individual has been declared an outlaw specifically by the player government.

In the case of Aerik I think it's fair enough that people attack him because he has a bad reputation, but I've seen newbies posting about how their level 2/3 pirate got PK'd for going into Cordor.

If people still want to play a CN vigilante that murders anyone with pirate tattoos that's fair enough, but should come with risk of jail/execution.

[RedGiant]

Love the tag philosophy. Expand it.

Monster races are visibly and mechanically forced to RP their situations. Slaves, Outcasts, and Pirates require the same treatment as long experience on this server has shown.

[Apothys]

Oh yeah Aerik totally deserve his infamy, in fact in game its promoted. I accept what comes his way, i just want a bit of RP first for me and any other pirates, there can be a lot gained for such interactions, "Pirates and Do-gooders in a stand off, exchanging words before everything blows up" so to speak....

As for blaming an entire settlement for the actions of a few, Sencliff is a combination of many crews, each acts independently, its just a shame we all get herded into the same pen when it comes time for execution. Yet i guess thats not common knowledge ingame as its more complicated than you think.

[Queen Titania]

As said by some in this thread, your tag helps define the setting, but your individual reputation that you craft from your actions can create very differing experiences for each player. Even outcasts can work this to a certain extent, though theirs will always be more restrictive.

Crafting that reputation can be a challenge with nice rewards if you are patient, and there are players that manage it. Perhaps the best advice I can offer is to watch those who are successful and see if you can mimic them.

Rulebreaks regarding PvP or RP quality should just be directed to us, as the thread won't really solve it. For that reason: Thread->Locked.