Monk Items

[Dreams]

Just wanted to offer some feedback on monk itemization and how ridiculously easy it is to gear a monk of any kind, thanks to the readily available items already in the toolset and in the loot tables.

We already have:
- Monk Tshirt - +3AC, +2WIS, +1DEX, (Tier2 Rune - +1Uni Saves, or +1CON)
- Monk Gloves - +3AB, +6Damage, +2WIS, +1DEX, (Tier3 Rune - +1Uni Saves, or +1CON)
- Monk Amulet - +1DEX/WIS/CON, rune for more.
- Monk Belt - +2WIS, +1CON, (Tier 1 Rune, +1DEX)

Imagine adding (viewtopic.php?f=51&t=26589) to this. Fine Elven Boots are already the typical choice with +2DEX, +5Hide/MS/Listen, and usually enchanted for +1AC, then Tier3 rune for something else. Let's say it is wisdom.

When I was playing Bai Quan, it was in the midst of crazy OP monks. After the update, he still would have been insanely powerful due to the easily optimized items. These items are hands down better than any other available item for any other class. You certainly might be able to come up with examples for things that fit a gimmick or are acceptable choices for particular builds, but the above examples I have posted here are without a doubt the best in slot and completely beyond other items available for other classes.

A huge part of what made monks an issue in the past was the items that were released for them. These are still incredible and still able to be easily obtained.

[CptJonas]

Those items are here bcs monks allways had one of worst itemization ever...its class that could use all atributes except cha..

Monks are curently even with those items just ok...definetly not OP

[Ork]

One of the balances to Monks is how challenging it is to quad-stat. If we allow monks a high availability to monk stats, you'll start seeing divine monks - which isn't a good idea.

[CptJonas]

One of the balances to Monks is how challenging it is to quad-stat. If we allow monks a high availability to monk stats, you'll start seeing divine monks - which isn't a good idea.

What do you mean? Divine monk? Like divine class with monk dip?

[Mattamue]

One of the balances to Monks is how challenging it is to quad-stat. If we allow monks a high availability to monk stats, you'll start seeing divine monks - which isn't a good idea.

What do you mean? Divine monk? Like divine class with monk dip?

For my own observation, divine class > monk dip is confounded by armor and stat requirements. Adjusting gear to allow a monk to have the str/dex, con, wis, AND CHA to make a monk > divine shield dip viable would be the overpowered issue because the armor requirements aren't there to balance out. Granted, itemization shouldn't allow a paladin to run around in fine silk clothes and max ac with a monk dip either...

[CptJonas]

One of the balances to Monks is how challenging it is to quad-stat. If we allow monks a high availability to monk stats, you'll start seeing divine monks - which isn't a good idea.

What do you mean? Divine monk? Like divine class with monk dip?

For my own observation, divine class > monk dip is confounded by armor and stat requirements. Adjusting gear to allow a monk to have the str/dex, con, wis, AND CHA to make a monk > divine shield dip viable would be the overpowered issue because the armor requirements aren't there to balance out. Granted, itemization shouldn't allow a paladin to run around in fine silk clothes and max ac with a monk dip either...

Ehh...What....this works for some time allready Even before items were added I even know people playing those divine classes with monk dip Ever heard of healer clerik BG/Pala monk? with crossbow? Thats exactly what are you talking about...and that was a thing before those items...and after it...as I am aware they actualy used non or just one of those items

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Honestly said adding boots are of little conseq uence. One can just qaud enchant boots from scratch.

That being said, monk equipment is fine as is right now.

[Ork]

[...]ellipses

For the record, that is not what I am talking about.

[AstralUniverse]

I played the same monk, before, during and after the mad series of updates. I consider this class currently demolished even with all of the new gear options. One thing to remember is that most of these +2 wisdom items were added to negate the change to Owl's Insight, and ultimately doing what exactly? facilitating Healer-monk-dip even more.
I wish things would be reversed all the way back to Vanilla monks. Without the gear but with the Owl's insight back. Because Owl's insight cannot be abused by clerics, requires skill investment, costs money, and are hard to find so they require some RP in most cases, all of which are good things in this regard.

Edit in Bold.

[CptJonas]

I played the same monk, before, during and after the mad series of updates. I consider this class currently demolished even with all of the new gear options. One thing to remember is that most of these +2 wisdom items were added to negate the change to Owl's Insight, and ultimately doing what exactly? facilitating Healer-monk-dip even more.
I wish things would be reversed all the way back to Vanilla monks. Without the gear but with the Owl's insight back. Because Owl's insight cannot be abused by clerics, requires skill investment and costs money, all of which are good things in this regard.

Well...this happens...I actualy dont want nearly any of my favorite classes changed bcs of this...bcs moment I saw monk changes...I knew...ouu duck...su much stuff...it will buther them....People kinda tend to overtune classes in changes...then slowly nerf it down and down....and you just end up with worse version of that original class...

I am still happy that team does it...change is good...But can you next time do it as in old days....make it new path? So people can play old one....and if you duck up it doesnt duck up whole class?

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I played the same monk, before, during and after the mad series of updates. I consider this class currently demolished even with all of the new gear options. One thing to remember is that most of these +2 wisdom items were added to negate the change to Owl's Insight, and ultimately doing what exactly? facilitating Healer-monk-dip even more.
I wish things would be reversed all the way back to Vanilla monks. Without the gear but with the Owl's insight back. Because Owl's insight cannot be abused by clerics, requires skill investment, costs money, and are hard to find so they require some RP in most cases, all of which are good things in this regard.

Edit in Bold.

Not sure what you are talking about owls insight nerf here.

[AstralUniverse]

I played the same monk, before, during and after the mad series of updates. I consider this class currently demolished even with all of the new gear options. One thing to remember is that most of these +2 wisdom items were added to negate the change to Owl's Insight, and ultimately doing what exactly? facilitating Healer-monk-dip even more.
I wish things would be reversed all the way back to Vanilla monks. Without the gear but with the Owl's insight back. Because Owl's insight cannot be abused by clerics, requires skill investment, costs money, and are hard to find so they require some RP in most cases, all of which are good things in this regard.

Edit in Bold.

Not sure what you are talking about owls insight nerf here.

Owl's Insight can no longer be used if you dont have druid lvls. So its a +7 wisdom buff that last 15h no longer accessible to monk. The new gloves and outfit were added a day or even hours before this change went live. Now, I'll be honest and say that with end game gear, with a lot of runes and two 5% items, I was able to max dex, con and wisdom with rolls of 4 and 5 on the animal wands, without owl's insight, but saying that the new items are monk "buffs" is a huge overstatement.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I played the same monk, before, during and after the mad series of updates. I consider this class currently demolished even with all of the new gear options. One thing to remember is that most of these +2 wisdom items were added to negate the change to Owl's Insight, and ultimately doing what exactly? facilitating Healer-monk-dip even more.
I wish things would be reversed all the way back to Vanilla monks. Without the gear but with the Owl's insight back. Because Owl's insight cannot be abused by clerics, requires skill investment, costs money, and are hard to find so they require some RP in most cases, all of which are good things in this regard.

Edit in Bold.

Not sure what you are talking about owls insight nerf here.

Owl's Insight can no longer be used if you dont have druid lvls. So its a +7 wisdom buff that last 15h no longer accessible to monk. The new gloves and outfit were added a day or even hours before this change went live. Now, I'll be honest and say that with end game gear, with a lot of runes and two 5% items, I was able to max dex, con and wisdom with rolls of 4 and 5 on the animal wands, without owl's insight, but saying that the new items are monk "buffs" is a huge overstatement.

Is owl insight bigger than thsn normal owl wisdom potion which still works?

[AstralUniverse]

Is owl insight bigger than thsn normal owl wisdom potion which still works?

Not sure I understand the question. Owl's wisdom gives 1d4+1 for either 3 hours or 15 if it's a wand. Owl's insight scroll gives +7. Of course insight is better.

Or are you asking if Owl's wisdom + monk gear VS owl's insight without the new monk gear?
In that case I still prefer the insight cause it saves a lot of gear slots (that monks dont really have many to spare) for very important things like discipline, fort save, hide/ms, (EDIT) lovely lore.

[Mattamue]

Refresher, someone else's chart. Monk itemization already gives them a lot of stats.

[AstralUniverse]

I dont know what I think about this. From my experience monks need fort save more than str. hide/ms doesnt show on this chart and the fact you need all these 5%s (some of them arent even realistic) to get about the same numbers you used to get before the gear and the removed of owl's insight, sort of proved my point.

[Mattamue]

This is from the monk update. Now that strength monks have been changed you could easily re-allocate the strength points elsewhere -- like fort.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Is owl insight bigger than thsn normal owl wisdom potion which still works?

Not sure I understand the question. Owl's wisdom gives 1d4+1 for either 3 hours or 15 if it's a wand. Owl's insight scroll gives +7. Of course insight is better.

Or are you asking if Owl's wisdom + monk gear VS owl's insight without the new monk gear?
In that case I still prefer the insight cause it saves a lot of gear slots (that monks dont really have many to spare) for very important things like discipline, fort save, hide/ms, (EDIT) lovely lore.

I was confusing insight and wisdom for same spell