Racial Stats, Gifts, and ECL

[Apokriphos]

The biggest problem I find is that human is superior for almost all builds and incredibly flexible besides. The bonus feat and bonus skill per level with 0 innate ecl usually beats the perks of any other subrace. It also can go most anywhere for roleplay without getting the hostility slap unlike monster races (which should be factored into the perks given to any particular race) and is accepted both in the UD and surface with ease. Most clothing options and armor scales well on the model. Consequently most players main humans.

Currently Tiefling and Aasimar are the peak of what can be done mechanically. And most every player who creates one uses the base of human to do so. And if said player wants to roleplay an undead immune build instead? Play a 'human' vampire. Most all build guides acknowledge this problem and just accept it as the reality of building in Arelith. The feat and skills are too good to forgo.

I wish human races were not so mechanically dominant in Arelith. The problem as I see it is most other higher ecl races are stuck with a more limited level of potentially mechanically useful builds that influences player decisions, and reduces their racial community.

One potential solution would be to grant roleplay perks and other benefits to non human races and subraces to compensate and incentivize players to both try them out and stay with them as their 'Main Character' instead of a flavor of the month.

[Void]

The biggest problem I find is that human is superior for almost all builds and incredibly flexible besides. The bonus feat and bonus skill per level with 0 innate ecl usually beats the perks of any other subrace.

This is kinda the point.

Humans dominate the realm due to their adaptability - they're the most common race in Faerun. This is reflected in extra feat, extra skillpoint, and lack of favored class mechanically.

It is supposed to work this way, pretty much.

[Archnon]

The biggest problem I find is that human is superior for almost all builds and incredibly flexible besides. The bonus feat and bonus skill per level with 0 innate ecl usually beats the perks of any other subrace.

This is kinda the point.

Humans dominate the realm due to their adaptability - they're the most common race in Faerun. This is reflected in extra feat, extra skillpoint, and lack of favored class mechanically.

It is supposed to work this way, pretty much.

Humans are the most common race because they live short, amorous, fecund lives, producing hordes of little children (advantage over gnome, dwarf, elf) and at the same time they are not prone to killing each other (advantage over monsters).

They are adaptable. That is why they get a free feat and free skill points in vanilla. However, elves are more dextrous, dwarves sturdier, ogres stronger, etc. However, in order to mimic their proclivity for reproduction in the world of powergaming, we make them the strongest class. In fact, through the gift system, we make all the base classes the strongest. This really cheapens the other classes. Further, the easy access to the UD for humans is a bit of a joke (someone convince me that slave RP isn't just i wanna play a human but run around the UD all free).

If you want to fix this, its simple. Get rid of all +2 stat gifts. Allow gifts to all be based on skills (+5 per skill) and gate a few gifts behind minor rewards. Gift of wealth, some of the spells, gift of noblity, +5 lore etc.

But then you get a decline in the number of humans. If the devs want to avoid that, they can add in other incentives. Humans get no increase in ECL for gifts. Humans add an extra 5% on your epic sacrifice rolls. Something like that. Then they might actually mimic their fleeting, highly fecund lifestyle, true to lore, and still be the most numerous on the island.

[cowboy]

I will be crucified for this; but I think humans (imaskari included) should only be allowed to choose one major stat gift, and instead can take another non-stat major, or 3 minor gifts. Humans get extras skills, and a feat. That is their super power - they dab on everyone else otherwise.

Keeps them strong and with their adaptability in mind; but helps making some of the other races wear the horns less.

[DangerDolphin]

Encouraging humans is quite a good thing, as it means the most populous race really is populous, and also newbies who are unsure and pick vanilla human aren't 'punished' for making the generic decision. If they were weak, then everyone would be a strange race.

I do agree their advantage is significant though. It would be cool if other races received some free skill points as they leveled up, but in specific skills. For instance, Wild Elves could get bonuses to animal empathy, Duergar to appraise, Dwarves bonuses to smithing, etc

[Apokriphos]

I do agree their advantage is significant though. It would be cool if other races received some free skill points as they leveled up, but in specific skills. For instance, Wild Elves could get bonuses to animal empathy, Duergar to appraise, Dwarves bonuses to smithing, etc

I like the idea of each non human race getting a specific skill bonus. Nothing too powerful but enough to offset some of the skill discrepancy.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

The main reason ogre sucks is how mandatory combat expertise is in melee builds.

The fact rhat IE works even when flat footed makes it crazy strong. Like a sneak still has a considerable amount of ac to overcome when you got improved expertise on. Can heal kit too.

But ogre does allow for more niche builds, i still think it a joke compared to minotaurs and and firbolgs for large creature competetion.

It's also a joke compared to Duergar that with a gift can be + 4 str + 2 con which is actaully the same ab as a plus 6 large becuase size penalty to ab and ac. Plus 4 special dwarven war axe too.

[Wrips]

Races that have access to racial weapons can already partially offset their skill deficit in relation to humans - and these racial weapons became even more powerful after the UMD changes: before the changes, a human could invest 30 points in UMD and have access to wands, scrolls and a few +4 racial weapons. Now, to have access to the same items, they need to invest 63 points total.

And I am impressed that no one mentioned orogs in these discussions about extremely powerful races.

[Ork]

People don't mention orog, duergar or wood elf because these races are under-represented in our server population. While their stat block is probably the best on Arelith, few people play them.

[Void]

People don't mention orog, duergar or wood elf because these races are under-represented in our server population. While their stat block is probably the best on Arelith, few people play them.

...I think Orogs had some sort of odd appearance. Also, on related note, would be nice if wiki for monster races had screenshots.

I mean... I wanted to make a kobold once and then realized that it had semi-transparent head. Not sure if this visual glitch has been fixed since.

[a shrouded figure]

I wouldn’t mind some monster voices to go along with the monster races. My gnoll talks like such a gentleman.

[Void]

I wouldn’t mind some monster voices to go along with the monster races. My gnoll talks like such a gentleman.

You can already select any monster voice present in the base game.
http://wiki.arelith.com/Portraits_and_voices
See portrait override/sound override.

That includes "Guororourg!!!!!!" voice used by some of the surface gnoll spawns.

[Kuma]

...I think Orogs had some sort of odd appearance.

you're thinking of hobgoblins, that look like they're ice-skating when they move at PC speed. orog appearance is just half-orc

[Ork]

Orogs can be massive, and I love them.

[Aren]

People don't mention orog, duergar or wood elf because these races are under-represented in our server population. While their stat block is probably the best on Arelith, few people play them.

Preach.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

Orogs can be massive, and I love them.

My feelings towards halforc models is akon to many people and gnomes. I love greatswords, i do not love wielding one as a halforc model which looks like Terry line backer genetically mutated by some diabolical gnome.