ASF

[CptJonas]

Anyone else thinks thats weird that class like SS with all their stuff, 9 circle of spells, and acces to AS have 5% ASF reduction....Warlock have 20% ASF reduction...

And class like bard which have just first 6 circles and which is suposted to be Jack of all trades have non? Like hell... He cant even take AS...

I know there were many discusions on this...but still...no change...

Even tho ist basicly QoL change so we dont need to go naked when we want buff ourselfs...

[Shrouded Wanderer]

Pathfinder added feats for eldritch knight, bards and spellswords that gave them ASF reduction.

Arcane armor mastery 1 and 2

Maximum arcane spell failure reduction of 20% for 2 feats.

Imo if arelith ever decided to do it it should be 3 feats for balance up to 25%

[Opustus]

It's a balance consideration surely, not only a QoL though that's important too. Greensteel is inferior to other types of armor with less AC and other stats. Lower ASF would change this, allowing for spellswords to wear better gear. The idea of using still spell to cast in armour is a bit faulty, because it's simply better to strip nude so you can cast your buffs extended. Giving lower level options for ASF-reduced armour might reduce the nudity and leave the balance intact.

The bard's lack of ASF reduction has been mulled over a couple of times. I can't be arsed to search it for you, but try searching with something like ASF + Bard and keep an eye out for the many-paged threads.

[Twohand]

This topic has already been discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=191337

TLDR: Bards were going to get Arcane Spell Failure reduction but after further discussion:

It's actually not going to happen anymore.

After discussion with a few people, it is just going to be an unnecessary benefit since there are already spelltheif armour if you want to be a bard that casts in armour

[CptJonas]

This topic has already been discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=191337

TLDR: Bards were going to get Arcane Spell Failure reduction but after further discussion:

It's actually not going to happen anymore.

After discussion with a few people, it is just going to be an unnecessary benefit since there are already spelltheif armour if you want to be a bard that casts in armour

Well...yeah...but why isnt this argument used on SS then?

[AstralUniverse]

This topic has already been discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=191337

TLDR: Bards were going to get Arcane Spell Failure reduction but after further discussion:

It's actually not going to happen anymore.

After discussion with a few people, it is just going to be an unnecessary benefit since there are already spelltheif armour if you want to be a bard that casts in armour

Well...yeah...but why isnt this argument used on SS then?

Bards cannot access Auto Still Spell to reduce ASF and spellswords can, so from that alone you cant use the same argument for both.

[CptJonas]

This topic has already been discussed in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=191337

TLDR: Bards were going to get Arcane Spell Failure reduction but after further discussion:

Well...yeah...but why isnt this argument used on SS then?

Bards cannot access Auto Still Spell to reduce ASF and spellswords can, so from that alone you cant use the same argument for both.

Well exactly...just from that alone you can say that SS shouldnt have ASF reduction while bard should...or neither...

[AstralUniverse]

just for the record. It is not what I'm saying.

[Zavandar]

bards................also have bard song and curse song

you cant compare. . ..... a piece of two classes' kits... in a vacuum............................







.

[CptJonas]

bards................also have bard song and curse song

you cant compare. . ..... a piece of two classes' kits... in a vacuum............................







.

Well yeah....but SS have more HP, Unccany dodge, 9 circles of spells, EMA, Imbue, ESF ...
To put it simply...
SS is better than bard in all regards except from group play...and even in that bard offers only bard song (yeah I know how OP it is)...These days SS even can even be better for groups without other wizzard just bcs he can use extended mass haste

[The1Kobra]

Spellswords actually get -10% ASF total, -5% on armor and -5% on shield. Spellswords do have a fair number of spells they can use in battle so having ASF can be a pain.

It allows for them to use without spell failure:

Greensteel/Padded armor + small shield
Greensteel/Padded armor + Greensteel shield

Robes+Small Shield (DEX only)
Robes + Steel Wakizashi

By this metric, Warlocks get -40% ASF since it applies to both armor and shield, and can stack. (AKA They can use banded mail and a small shield with no ASF)

Bards just have to rely on still spell if they want to use armor. Or go DEX based and use robes. (Not usually a good idea, mind)

[CptJonas]

Spellswords actually get -10% ASF total, -5% on armor and -5% on shield. Spellswords do have a fair number of spells they can use in battle so having ASF can be a pain.

It allows for them to use without spell failure:

Greensteel/Padded armor + small shield
Greensteel/Padded armor + Greensteel shield

Robes+Small Shield (DEX only)
Robues + Steel Wakizashi

By this metric, Warlocks get -40% ASF since it applies to both armor and shield, and can stack. (AKA They can use banded mail and a small shield with no ASF)

Bards just have to rely on still spell if they want to use armor. Or go DEX based and use robes. (Not usually a good idea, mind)

Yeah thats how things are...I just feel like bards are punished in QoL department just bcs bard song mechanical power...which feels weird...and its shame...Bards...No ESF, no ASF reduction, low HP, not even extended mass haste...
I dont play bard curently but its shame how low number of them I see in game....and I think its moustly by that how you sacrifice personal power for party buff and on top of it you need to be wearing cloth or perma got naked to cast/or still which ist exactly option if you want your buffs last.....So its kinda pain to play bard....

I actualy after like 4 +- years on arelith, with thousands of hours in game....Had bardsong on me just maybe twice +-...thats shame...

[AstralUniverse]

Its smells a lot like the vanila monk's case. You couldnt buff it without getting rid of the movement speed first. You cant buff bard in ANY way without first nerfing bard song a little.

[CptJonas]

Its smells a lot like the vanila monk's case. You couldnt buff it without getting rid of the movement speed first. You cant buff bard in ANY way without first nerfing bard song a little.

As allways....I not voting for nerf or change which would afect current players in bad way....
But it would be nice to create separate path if any of masiv changes would be to take place...

But once again....as was stated even by team....its nothing major...

that 5% ASF or so isnt even some huge mechanical advantage for bard....only QoL..bard dont have any strong ofensive spells...its just for ability to buff yourself or cast haste without need to strip yourself...

Curently there are 2 ways...go cloth and cast...or go full plate and naked buf yourself before fight....Or be like majority of population...dont use spells just wands...thats kinda shame for half caster class...

With that 5% it would only mean that you can be in kinda middle ground....wear greensteel....so you will have higher AC then without anything but still lower AC then full plate tower shield guy who buffs thro wands...

that high end power of bard would not change....only those weird guys who prefer quality of life instead of power would have a little higher AC (or for example in my case if I would even played bard again...I could use some visuals from chaimail which I realy like without dumping my spellcasting...)