Concerns about Server Direction.

[JustMonika]

Hello everyone.

Let me preface this by saying I think Irongron, Grumpycat, and co are wonderful people who have created some incredible things. Everyone that designs and adds to Arelith has incredible talent that I wouldn't even know how to match. This isn't intended as a personal attack on anyone, but it's something that's been bothering me for a long time and I wanted to get out in the open.

That said; Here Goes.

I'm really worried about the servers direction long term.
Specifcally the way we handle player population.

Over the last few years, we've made some sweeping changes to the way "Old Arelith" handled this, [and by this, I mean the Arelith I joined ten years ago.] and I'm really worried about what they mean for our future health and longevity as a community.

We're spreading out our playerbase, badly. Let's break it down.

We have Skal. A self enclosed Island, that for 50% of the time, could easily be an entirely seperate server unconnected to Arelith at all.
We've got the immensely huge City State of Cordor.
We've got Brogenstine - and Bendir.
We've got the Undercity, split into two seperate districts.
We've got Guldorand.
We've got "New Guldorand" [To be added.]
We've got Senclffe.
We've got the Radient Heart, The Shadow Tower, the Abyssal Fortress, the Banite Temple, and various other minor "Secret" locations.

For anyone to roleplay with anyone, there needs to be two people. So let's assume we'd like at least two people in all of these places at any one time.

That's sixteen players, before adding minor locations. Wack them in and we're up to at least 26. All those people have to be online, at the same time, in every time zone around the world, not out venturing, for any of those locations to have a semblence of life. That's a pretty step demand on a 16 year old RPG server, and that's assuming zero people out adventuring.

Now, in GMT and most US times, we can mostly manage that for most locations. Sometimes we're 'Bangin'' with activity. But then you turn the clock to our poor Australian and Eastern Europe friends, and the picture already looks pretty bleak.

Then we have my next concern, start zones.

When I joined, I'm 80% certain you started in Cordor. There was probably an Udos Drow start too, a little bit later that was swapped for pit town. Let's say there were two.

Now we can start in Skal. Or Cordor. Or Brog. Or Sencliffe. Or the Underdark.
That's -Five- places. If five people all joined Arelith at the same time, they might all manage to end up completely alone!

Rather than pool our new players together, at the most vital start of any player experience, first impressions, we're actively working to dilute them across as much geographical space as possible so they never meet each other.

And these are really really seperate places. Play on Sencliffe, your a pirate. Where to you go? Well, we've introded writs. These reward players with mechanical power in exchange for doing tasks.
Okay, so we've given our players directions on where they should go. Where's that?
Sencliffe writs require you to be on a boat, or in Sencliffe.
Cordor Writs require you to be in Cordor, or nearby.
Skal Writs mean you have to be in Skal.
Underdark writs? - Underdark.

So now we've given these new players their directions, they're still utterly isolated from each other. What excitement would there be if there was a level 6-10 dungeon, where both Drow and Cordorians and Pirates went? What conflict and early character devolopment might that break?

But instead until roughly level 18, we intentionally keep all our players seperate from each other fivefold reducing their chances of meeting,and roleplaying with other characters.

It's even worse, when as a low level character if you go to the other sides 'Base Camp', you get thrown out. Pirate goes to Cordor? Thrown out? Drow goes to Cordor? Thrown out. Drow Goes to Skal? Thrown out. Skal wants to go anywhere else? 50% chance of not being able to leave at all. So you can't adventure together, and you can't socialise together.

Oh gods. I think I forgot all about Myon. Is that an elf start? I don't think so. But it's another location.

I want to retain players. I want to roleplay with people, old and new. I want other people to meet other people and make a living breathing world, but we feel stretched thin, and getting stretched thinner.

We have five settlement systems needing active player management. It takes a certain kind ofplayer to want to deal with admin, event management, and numbers games. A special kind of player to be good at it. So really we need at least ten of those all the time too. If New City has a settlement system, that's even more. I'm not sure we have the players forthat as it is.



It's not my server. I don't expect or have a right to anything. I fully expect the Admins to do what they want, and I Love Arelith. I'll probably be here till the lights go out.
But I don't want the lights to go out.
I don't want use to lose players because the world feels empty, or because they can never find anyone to roleplay with or they can't roleplay with their friends because they're on the otherside of an impossible to travel game world.
I don't want conflict to only exist between epic level characters because you won't run into anyone before you get that high.


Here is some things I would do. I don't expect them to be done, but I'm hoping they illustrate my reasoning.


1) I would delete all of Skal and all of Sencliffe.
I love these places. They're amazing well designed immersive maps. But the core of their existances is to split both new and existing players up in an unsustainable way, vastly reducing the population and life of the rest of the game world. Return the Skal start to Cordor, and you'd hugely improve the life of the city. The map is -massive-, counting allthe add ons, it's like, what six exterior maps alone? + The Barracks and Nomad, which you really want populated too.
Sencliffe likewise, is terribly isolated, isolating, and sucks away the players. Pirates are literal outcasts. There could easily be pirate community built in the undercity, giving the underdarkers access to ships and the sea, and allowing pirates to share their writs and have an underdark pirate cove of their own.

2) I would lock 'Evil' aligned starts, specifically anyone who starts in the Underdark, behind twenty RPR or a minor reward.

By this, I don't mean -spending- a minor reward. I mean just that at some point the player must have earned a minor reward, IE, retired a level 16 character. This funnels all the new players into one primary start - Cordor- and allows the city and atmosphere to be designed and co-ordinated specifically around that. A good antagnoist is hard to play, I think most people agree on that. Locking them behind a tiny slight gate allows better management of new players and encourages a commitment before venturing into the realm of slavery, piracy, and monster roleplay.

3) I would lock Areith specific classes the same way. [Eg, Trueflame, Warlock.]
Arelith has looootts of mandatory changes and haks over the base game, these are also harder classes to roleplay well. I'm pretty certain alot of new players have outright quit by playing a Warlock,starting in Cordor, and getting punched into the ground and screamed at for being Warlocks. Enforcing a little learning period allows players to know what they're getting into.

4) Create Writ overlap areas.

Have writ zones for low level characters that are specifically designed to bring conflict/interaction between people. Heck, lock it behind a boat guy, who goes, 'Sorry fella, you're too experienced for a trip to the Isle of Adventure', if you're worried about newbie bashing. But give players a space to be able to encounter other players from theother side of theIsland together, and either fight over their hunting grounds or form unlikely alliances to defeat NPCs. It also maximises a small player pool. Because however many newbies are online -they can all go to the same place.-

5) Employ a vision design Admin.

I might be totally wrong or totally out of line here, but from what I can tell is this.

Irongron is creative lead. He designs the world, the story, the maps, the setting, the day to day admin and makes the 'Final Decisions'
Grumpycat handles problems, dms, community relations and policing.
Contributors contribute whatever they like according to Irongron's approved suggestions list, whenever they like.

What I don't see, is anyone thats responsible for the overall long term server design from a management perspective. Player retention, game design, intergration of all that content.

The best I can do it is compare it to Wizards of the Coast's RnD Department. Vision design,the big that creates the story, the world, the setting and the basic idea behind the cards, is a vastly different department to the one that decides what the game needs and how it's marketed and how to keep the company in business.

I feel I see content added because it's amazing, beautiful, well produced great looking -art- that's a labour of love for someone for dozens of hours and because it's -fun-. But I worry that it isn't being added with an eye to designing a game that weel keep it's players, or for one that cater tothose players in naturally quieter timezones.


I really love you all and this community.

[Emotionaloverload]

There is a lot here so I will only work on the numbered bits and come back for the rest if they aren't addressed.

1) I would delete all of Skal and all of Sencliffe.

I haven't played on Skal so I have no opinion on that. However, Pirates are not outcasts. Outcast is an entirely different situation and should be treated differently. Sencliff has a very storied, player driven history and it is great that players have the option to start there for their concepts.

Pirates are allowed in other settlements, unlike monsters or drow that have (at least in my twelve + years) been barred beyond DM intervention. It is the pirate tattoos or infamy that makes it hard for them to be in settlements which can be combated with disguise.

2) I would lock 'Evil' aligned starts, specifically anyone who starts in the Underdark, behind twenty RPR or a minor reward.

I do not see the logic behind this. There nothing that I see that would suggest that player numbers in a given settlement would improve if everyone was forced to play a specific race of a good or neutral alignment (I imagine they would drop across the board, instead). I feel that the warning prompt that is given upon entry for the different starts is enough to allow the player an informed decision that would best suit their concept, play style and abilities.

3) I would lock Areith specific classes the same way. [Eg, Trueflame, Warlock.]

Again, there is no need for this. Otherwise you would have to lock BG, necro focused casters and maybe even druids. I would instead suggest trusting in players to understand that if you roll up into the Amnian influenced merchant Port of Cordor or the Halls of the Dwarves with a demon in tow or setting people you disagree with on fire, you will face IG consequences.

4) Create Writ overlap areas.

These already exist. Just perhaps not in the quantity that people might want. There are writs that put Uders on the Surface for what is usually a Surface writ - same for putting Surfacers at sea or in the UD. (I can't speak for Skal. Bring out your spokespeople).

I will leave #5 to the team.



Thank you.
-S

[Nitro]

I disagree with all of this except for Sencliff. Sencliff should not be a starting area, or if it is to continue to be one it should be heavily reworked. To get full enjoyment out of it you need the tattoos (which is largely due to player culture, but module design shapes player culture) and if you have the tattoos, trying to level up becomes torturous as you'll get killed anywhere outside sencliff.

[JustMonika]

There is a lot here so I will only work on the numbered bits and come back for the rest if they aren't addressed.

Thanks for getting back to me Emotional Overlord, but I think you might have missed the point.

Perhaps the suggestions at the end were a mistake. They're there to highlight how I'd go about tackling the problems outlined in the body, but are ultimately irrelevent. It's not my server to fix - I was hoping only that showing how I'd change things would provide a further understanding of what I see as the concern, but I think it's done to the reverse.

I love Sencliffe, I love my pirate, and I'm intimately familiar with the history of the place. It's great.

But that's not the point. The point is entirely about splitting and spreading the playerbase. Sencliffe is another start, another population division. Another isolated set of new characters. Another collection of writs that hardly overlap.

Also I've no for the moment anywhere adovated that anyone should have to play a specific race or a certain alignment. I've only advocated that the 'Underdark Start', [which is principally for 'Evil' aligned characters, but not exclusively.] Should be gated behind the smallest of requirements, [20RPR or having previously rolled any character of at least level 16, once.]

This is for two reasons - To ensure all new players get the same shared introduction to the server.
To provide a little bit of pratice before people play Arelith on 'Hard mode'.

I'm not sure why you thin I'd want Necromancy focus castered locked behind some sort of gateway, either.
I'm advocating purely for Arelith only invented custom classes to be gated. Necromancy focuses have nothing to do with that at all, nor do Druids.

As for hoping that rolling up in Cordor with a demon in tow is bad, having played a Cordor Guard for many reasons, this often isn't the case. New players will log on, be like, 'Wow, this class feature is cool', click the summon button and have utterly no idea of what a 'Cordor' or an 'Amn'. Some are new to Arelith. Some are new to the forgotten realms entirely and expecting them to know they're not allowed to use their own class features to beat NPCs in the starting writ area is either unreasonable, or impratical, because based on experience - They don't.

There are writ overlap areas, yes. But as noted these are roughly all 17 plus, and then not applicable to Sencliffe or Skal. The idea is to get -low- level characters, from 4-12 to be able to regularly encounter each other. This isn't achived by the current setup.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I get your concerns, but I actually think the many options lead to a high level of replay factor. I think the numbers are so good because of that . Sometimes you have to get a bit creative when you are in a sector that's currently empty (these things ebb and flow) but generally anyone can do little things to make it more active almost instantly with a bit of effort.

As far as the aussie timezone thing goes, yeah, it can get pretty desolate. I feel for anyone in that timezone (though 70-90 people across three servers is still a great number!) but its hard to justify shifting an entire server just to accommodate a third of the timezone.

[JustMonika]

I get your concerns, but I actually think the many options lead to a high level of replay factor. I think the numbers are so good because of that . Sometimes you have to get a bit creative when you are in a sector that's currently empty (these things ebb and flow) but generally anyone can do little things to make it more active almost instantly with a bit of effort.

As far as the aussie timezone thing goes, yeah, it can get pretty desolate. I feel for anyone in that timezone (though 70-90 people across three servers is still a great number!) but its hard to justify shifting an entire server just to accommodate a third of the timezone.

You can make many of these changes without severly limiting the replayability. Ultimately you'd just be losing the Skal setting, and that could ultimately be re-tweaked as not a start, or a settlement, but an Island that you could visit. Killing Sencliff wouldn't change almost anything about being a pirate, you could still be pirate, sail the seas and raid an pillage, only your outpost would be in the Underdark, and you'd share all of it's wirt grounds and playerbases with you.

Right now, we're sustainable across the major timezones, and already struggling a third of the time, and this is Peak NWN popularity.

When that starts to tail off, the struggling will expand. That's what worries me.
Also the experience will never improve for the smaller time zones if we write them off, they're desolate in part because of the way Arelith is designed. It simply isn't catoring to small numbers of players, because it intentionally spreads them out.

We not only have a high number of players, we're dependant on maintaining that number of players.

[Righ]

I've only been around for a couple of months now, so I don't know how the server's population has waxed and waned over the years, but from what I understand Arelith has existed for almost 20 years. Is there something specific that has caused you to worry that it is in the early stages of a slow death? Is the concern that population has stayed the same but the world continues to grow, therefore leading to more empty space in between each player? Genuinely curious since I don't know much about the server's history.

I've created characters in both Skal and Cordor, with the latter being the first area I chose. I think the idea of alternative start locations is great, not only from a sense of novelty and keeping things fresh, but also because I don't think funneling everyone of a certain alignment into a single area would be good. Arelith is big. Surprisingly and very impressively big for having been built using the Neverwinter Nights' campaign creator tool. But compared to some other game worlds, it's actually kind of small, and I could see it ending up getting overcrowded very quickly. I appreciate the feeling of trekking in the woods and not coming across a single other soul. It makes the times when I actually do come across someone very memorable and stimulating.

Piggybacking off of some of your ideas, and Emotionaloverload's comment regarding warning prompts before entering each area, perhaps we could consider changing or updating those warning prompts. Add a bit more detail, perhaps even on a sign that players can read in the character creation zone, that explains the areas in a bit more depth, and perhaps even gives info on population size that could be updated each month. That way players could make an even more informed decision on where they start. You'd be surprised how many people would prefer to start in a less populated zone. It could really help fill out those empty areas and really revitalize the lonely corners of the island.

[JustMonika]

I've only been around for a couple of months now, so I don't know how the server's population has waxed and waned over the years, but from what I understand Arelith has existed for almost 20 years. Is there something specific that has caused you to worry that it is in the early stages of a slow death? Is the concern that population has stayed the same but the world continues to grow, therefore leading to more empty space in between each player? Genuinely curious since I don't know much about the server's history.

My concerns stem from, as the title suggests, the 'Direction' of the server.

Ten years ago, you started almost in the same place. We didn't have writs, much less wildly different geographic ones, so adventurers naturally clumped together.

It wasn't, 'Yeah, I need to go to the Iron Mines with someone explictly within my level range.' It was 'Where you wanna go adventuring? Let's go!' High levels and low levels went together sometimes, because you got less XP, but you got an easy ride. No-one got kicked out of a group because they were blocking a writ.

Areas wern't added, they were redesigned. New Cordor. New Underdark. New Farmlands.

What we've changed to now is adding. Extra starting places. Extra cities. Extra large distances. We've switched from a design that either unintentionally or intentionally, clustered our players together as much as possible, to one that does the reverse.

In my view what helped to keep us alive all these years was that every new player was dumped right into the heart of the action. Now you might stumble around alone for an hour give up and leave.

If we keep going down this road, 'New Paladin start at the Radient Heart!' We'll become even more thinly spread. I think we're beginning to reach the point now where it's going to be damaging long term, and that if it gets worse its goingto be damaging short term.

Most of us,because we live in the popular timezones won't notice at first, but eventually it'll affect us too. As Neverwinter Nights new popularity fades, players might well start to drop, that's [almost] certainly a fact of life.


If there were only 30 people online, would you play on the server with one central city, or the server with eight different cities, when you had no idea where those thirty people might be? On which one might you be sure of finding fellow players?

[Righ]

Ah, I see now. Yeah, I kind of get what you mean. I would have to agree that the writ system isn't my favorite thing simply for the fact that it seems to be the standard and most efficient way to level a character, which obviously then puts a lot of focus on "leveling your character quickly," which is not what a lot of us came here to do. I would assume it was meant as a way to give a bit of structure to adventuring if players found it difficult to create structure themselves. A good idea, and well-intentioned, but maybe with some unforeseen consequences.

Or maybe I'm completely off-base with that analysis.

Staying on the topic of structure though, I feel like there would need to be some sort of incentive to trekking all the way to a place like Skaljard from Cordor, other than just for adventure's sake. And even if it was just for adventure's sake, how many times can a player make the journey to and from Skal before it gets stale? What happens then? That isn't me saying your criticisms and concerns are wrong, either. I just don't know what the solution would be, because I don't know that removing these different areas as starting options is it.

Just an off-the-cuff idea that wormed into my head as I was typing - an alternative to multiple starting locations would maybe be to give some player control to these outlying cities and towns. Perhaps Skal becomes completely abandoned, and players could make a long journey there to help rebuild and revitalize it. Certain materials could only be obtained from Skal, therefore incentivizing travel and trade between there and Cordor. Perhaps then the split populations would be more organic at least, and there would be reason to visit various places? I don't know, just spitballing.

If there were only 30 people online, would you play on the server with one central city, or the server with eight different cities, when you had no idea where those thirty people might be? On which one might you be sure of finding fellow players?

Yeah, this was sort of the reason behind my thought of displaying city populations. If only 30 people log on in a certain timezone, it certainly would be nice for someone to know where those 30 people are. If there was a way to see where the main activity hubs for that timezone are, it could help to provide an opportunity for those players to group up, if that's what they want.

[Wuthering]

I like that there are multiple places to RP. The various settlements generally have cultural limiters on what kind of RP is allowed there and they can also have players who tend to remain in power and control for RL months or years, or have a dynasty of characters or tight knit groups that run the show. It's very easy to get burned out in Arelith communities when a few of your characters keep running into the same problems with the same powerful people. More places to base a character means more options to try different concepts that don't fall in line with the status quo or play characters who can have a conflict with the establishment in one place and actually have somewhere else to go. If you funnel people together into fewer RP zones i am sure there's going to be a significant amount who feel permanently on the sidelines or that they'll never be part of the in-crowd and will give up the game entirely.

Skal is nice because it's an almost completely disconnected world. It's also nice because players there seem more open to actually talk to strangers instead of sticking with their tight cliques and excluding unfamiliar faces. I don't play there often but enjoy it when I do and would hate to see it go, it actually feels much more like traditional D&D than anything else on Arelith and if anything could be expanded to be a full leveling experience.

Sencliff likewise, it has its own thing going and is a place you can engage in kinds of RP that are completely unsupported almost anywhere else on the surface.

I really don't see any signs that Arelith is fading away. Just because a town is empty some of the day doesn't mean it doesn't have a strong culture going on. We can't see an area like Brog (for example) buzzing with activity 24 hours a day but there's usually someone around and for a few hours a day it's usually very active.

Anyway the server population ebbs and flows, but once you remove a settlement or consolidate populations you can't really have an easy "do-over" it it wasn't the right choice. I think Arelith is in a good place where you can have many different types of experiences on different characters which is a great thing. Limiting options is what will drive people away.

[Void]

Rather than pool our new players together, at the most vital start of any player experience, first impressions, we're actively working to dilute them across as much geographical space as possible so they never meet each other.

You actually should not pool new players together, because first impressions are important.

A newbie's first impression can be ruined by another newbie, who has no idea what arelith is about, what roleplaying is, but really want to have a dungeon run. For example, once upon a time I tried some server where my first impression was a character named "don't step on the snek". It was supposed to be a roleplaying server. That didn't make a good impression.

Newbie's job is to wander around, talk to npcs (which, by the way, WILL direct them somewhere), and then they'll inevitably wander into crowd of people. And you want those people to be old-timer players, which will demonstrate what this is about through practical experience.

Right now this is roughly what happens.

But instead until roughly level 18, we intentionally keep all our players seperate from each other fivefold reducing their chances of meeting,and roleplaying with other characters.

That is false. Hubs form crowds which and there's persistent stream of players there from all level ranges.

It's even worse, when as a low level character if you go to the other sides 'Base Camp', you get thrown out. Pirate goes to Cordor? Thrown out? Drow goes to Cordor? Thrown out. Drow Goes to Skal? Thrown out. Skal wants to go anywhere else? 50% chance of not being able to leave at all. So you can't adventure together, and you can't socialise together.

As a low level Drow you won't make it into cordor. Skal has persistent crowd in it. Andunor used to have persistent crowd of people in the merchant building (or whatever it is called). It was very atmospheric last time I tried it.

I want to retain players. I want to roleplay with people, old and new. I want other people to meet other people and make a living breathing world, but we feel stretched thin, and getting stretched thinner.

You are worrying for no good reason. Right now the player has solid population. At this very moment, there are 150 people online, and that's a good number for an nwn server. I remember when the server averaged around 20..30 people.

Nothing good will happen from trying to force people to be in the same location, and especially bringing ton of newbies to the same spot.

1) I would delete all of Skal and all of Sencliffe.

Congrats. That will cost you 30 to 50 people which will leave. Skal has active roleplaying community in it which seems to be active all around the clock.

2) I would lock 'Evil' aligned starts, specifically anyone who starts in the Underdark, behind twenty RPR or a minor reward.

This will cost you additional dozens people who will walk away.
My biggest pet peeve with arelith is that I can't play a tiefling here.
Being locked away from underdark due to arbitrary limitation would feel similar, and would also remember the time when I first tried arelith. Someone who wants to play underdark won't waste their time trying to fish for dm attention and increase their rpr, they'll walk away.
You will also kill environment for people who hang out there right now.

This funnels all the new players into one primary start - Cordor- and allows the city and atmosphere to be designed and co-ordinated specifically around that.

Funneling newbies to cordor is a bad idea. The city already has a huge number of people who look lost and have default description, and are unaware of -description +temp. Bringing more of them there will clog the environment and make it less believable. Newbies should be ideally thrown into area with old-timer players, but in a way where they won't disrupt the old players too much. This is what currently happens, more or less. Additionally...

A good antagnoist is hard to play,

Being evil does not mean being an antagonist. Evil is selfish, but has no obligation to fight good.

3) I would lock Areith specific classes the same way. [Eg, Trueflame, Warlock.]

This will cost you few more dozen players.

4) Create Writ overlap areas.

Have writ zones for low level characters that are specifically designed to bring conflict/interaction between people.

This already happens a lot, and it sucks.
The starting dungeon of cordor has 4 writs that overlap, and in practie it means that you cannot complete your epic rat hunting quest, because 4 people passed through area, and killed every rat, mephit, sewer lunatic, gelatnous cube, a rare xvart spawn and even sewer drone on their way to gang hideout, sewer troll and cordor archives.

--------

JustMonika, while it is understandable that you worry about arelith, your suggestion will kill off 50 to 75 percent of populace if not more, and bring the server back to the area where it wasn't that great.

My first impression of arelith was very bad, by the way. Back then there were pages of introductionary text, some of it felt very elitist ("to learn language, you need to roleplay lessons for half of IRL year"), but after reading all that and preparing yourself for the worst, you would be exposed to people who godmod guards, summon wolves in the city, invent thin-weild excuse to kill things in a group and then somehow get wiped by hobgoblins in bramble woods.

The server has greatly improved since. Best not to bring all those things back.

[Void]

It wasn't, 'Yeah, I need to go to the Iron Mines with someone explictly within my level range.' It was 'Where you wanna go adventuring? Let's go!' High levels and low levels went together sometimes, because you got less XP, but you got an easy ride. No-one got kicked out of a group because they were blocking a writ.

You see, you originally could travel together with other levels on a writ. This possibility was explcitly shut down.
However, the ranges are quite high on some quests, and high and low levels can still travel together, and they often do.

In my view what helped to keep us alive all these years was that every new player was dumped right into the heart of the action. Now you might stumble around alone for an hour give up and leave.

It still works the same way.

If there were only 30 people online, would you play on the server with one central city, or the server with eight different cities, when you had no idea where those thirty people might be? On which one might you be sure of finding fellow players?

I would play on the one that is more fun. Finding another players does not guarantee enjoyable experience, and the world should provide enough content even if you travel alone. Arelith covers this very well. There are tons of stuff to discover.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I had to take my dog out so I posted fast, and wanted to elaborate on what I was saying some, particularly focusing on the new city. I personally think it has the potential to add a dimension that the surface sorely lacks, because it has the possibility of grey area conflict. On Arelith now, you have these little settlements that would get crushed by Amn since it supports cordor, and you have dwarves and elves. People have stretched both plausibility and forgotten realm lore to create conflict between these settlements (good dwarves are not fighting humans regularly in forgotten realms, elves are not at war with dwarves regularly, elves haven't fought each other in thousands of years, ect).

And if you read the dialogue from the flaming swords guy on what will be the road to the new city, it totally makes sense. Other countries on Faerun have taken interest in Arelith, which gives the city Amn-like NPC backing, and tensions that make sense can grow from there. It also has the added bonus of including elves and essentially replacing the small town of Guldorand that Cordor somehow respects as an equal force in the status quo.

So yes, spreading too thin is something that should always be a concern. I don't see it here though, at least not yet. I logged into Arelith back in its "heyday" and never stuck around, because I found it hard to get involved. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. Its the expansion that you are so strongly arguing against that made players like me start taking the server seriously, and is a big part of its growth over the last 3-4 years. The explanation for that is also rather simple. On a server where people play their character for 2, 4, 8 years its really hard to break into the inner circle if there is only one or two cities available. So while you may log in as a sencliff player or whatever and see it as a barren wasteland, someone like me see's it as an opportunity to carve out my own niche. And that, more then anything, is what makes arelith stand head and shoulders above everyone else these days.

Now if they can just figure out how to make player initiative have more of an effect on the world, they might just have found the perfect NwN server.

[Wuthering]

So while you may log in as a sencliff player or whatever and see it as a barren wasteland, someone like me see's it as an opportunity to carve out my own niche. And that, more then anything, is what makes arelith stand head and shoulders above everyone else these days.

Yeah exactly. If I see something underplayed (whether a race or faction or settlement) that's my cue to roll up my sleeves make something of it. I'm done with huge, established factions with leaders who've been in power for RL years and with settlements that never change because I know my character will never be anything but a footnote.

[JustMonika]

So while you may log in as a sencliff player or whatever and see it as a barren wasteland, someone like me see's it as an opportunity to carve out my own niche. And that, more then anything, is what makes arelith stand head and shoulders above everyone else these days.

Yeah exactly. If I see something underplayed (whether a race or faction or settlement) that's my cue to roll up my sleeves make something of it. I'm done with huge, established factions with leaders who've been in power for RL years and with settlements that never change because I know my character will never be anything but a footnote.

I do not believe there is presently a single settlement on Arelith where this is the case.

Cordor's Chancellor has been in power one term. The ruler of Guldorand recently changed. The Underdark districts turn over all the time. Anyone can get involved in any settlement on Arelith, the assumption that they can't because it's run by ooc clique groups is discord nonsense that's spread behind the scenes, I promise you. But that's unrelated to the topic at hand.


I'm really dissapointed that no-one has addressed my concerns.
Our playercount will drop.
Expansion and a drop in population is wildly unsustainable. It doesn't matter if what we have is perfect for the UK and East Coast USA today - We're already struggling for activity in a huge number of places, and this will only increase.

I don't care if my suggestions are utter unrealistic garbage that would cost us 98% of the playerbase. No-one is going to impliment any of my suggestions - I'm not part of the staff in any way shape nor form.

Rather than debate mine, I'd like people to suggest their own.

Unless people really think we can keep adding new areas, new start points, new settlement systems to manage when our player numbers start to drop. In which case I guess we just fundementally disagree and I really hope you're all right.

[JustMonika]

So while you may log in as a sencliff player or whatever and see it as a barren wasteland, someone like me see's it as an opportunity to carve out my own niche. And that, more then anything, is what makes arelith stand head and shoulders above everyone else these days.

Yeah exactly. If I see something underplayed (whether a race or faction or settlement) that's my cue to roll up my sleeves make something of it. I'm done with huge, established factions with leaders who've been in power for RL years and with settlements that never change because I know my character will never be anything but a footnote.

I do not believe there is presently a single settlement on Arelith where this is the case.

Cordor's Chancellor has been in power one term. The ruler of Guldorand recently changed. The Underdark districts turn over all the time. Anyone can get involved in any settlement on Arelith, the assumption that they can't because it's run by ooc clique groups is discord nonsense that's spread behind the scenes, I promise you. But that's unrelated to the topic at hand.


I'm really dissapointed that no-one has addressed my concerns.
Our playercount will drop.
Expansion and a drop in population is wildly unsustainable. It doesn't matter if what we have is perfect for the UK and East Coast USA today - We're already struggling for activity in a huge number of places, and this will only increase.

I don't care if my suggestions are utter unrealistic garbage that would cost us 98% of the playerbase. No-one is going to impliment any of my suggestions - I'm not part of the staff in any way shape nor form.

Rather than debate mine, I'd like people to suggest their own.

Unless people really think we can keep adding new areas, new start points, new settlement systems to manage when our player numbers start to drop. In which case I guess we just fundementally disagree and I really hope you're all right.

[Babylon System is the Vampire]

I'm really dissapointed that no-one has addressed my concerns.

I think we have. So far everyone who has responded just see's things differently then you. Sometimes, even when you are so convinced you are right that it hurts, you just have to let things go. If people agree with you eventually they will get around to posting too.

[Exordius]

I disagree entirely with all of this unfortunately. I came to Arelith because it was a massive world with multiple cities spread out over vast distances. If i wanted to have only one or two towns right next to each other with all the dungeons placed right next to each other, and everyone was constantly in the same area i would have stuck with my old server. Also 150+ players in a small area creates mega-lag and near constant crashing. And i like writs, if i wanted to play on a server where it took 20 real life years to reach max level i would not have come here. And the speed is not that great even with writs since a lot of them are hard and you can only do 3 per day. Believe me the level speed of Arelith is much slower then most of the servers out there. Honestly though, this idea that rp is all that matters and that everything else is bad and should be restricted with the world specifically designed to stifle all other aspects and (force) a certain game-play style on others while punishing them if they try to do anything else... this is what worries me the most. That idea has killed countless servers and i don't want to have to find another one. The only thing i agree with is the creation of a system that lets you know where everyone is in game... we have that on my old server and it helps immensely even though our population is much smaller. I fully support such a system on Arelith.

[Wuthering]

Anundor works well but people come and go quickly and the multiple districts means there's no single group in total control. Cordor is usually in one faction's hands, it changes government but it can be very cliquish and tough to break into from a player standpoint and while characters in power change the same players are often behind them. Anyway not everyone wants to play big city guard/government characters, at least not all the time, and it's really nice to have less populated options for a home base for many reasons.

I'm not debating you point by point on this, I'm expressing a different opinion entirely based on my own perception and experience and wants. I'm not making alternate suggestions because I don't see a problem currently or think there's doom on the horizon. If anything the thing that might cause the population to contract in the near future might be the horrible stuff going on in RL and people might not want to play time consuming video games like this as much. Or maybe they'll play more because they're stuck at home, who knows.

Finally.... Irongron and the devs seem to have a game plan and I'm more than content to see what that brings instead of second guessing them. I would always rather see change come from creativity and inspiration instead of fear and panic.

[Exordius]

"I'm not making alternate suggestions because I don't see a problem currently or think there's doom on the horizon."

Agreed, right now our population is increasing exponentially and while some areas might be empty for periods of time its by no means a major issue at the moment. We can afford to expand right now. If our population starts going down or more people start complaining about there being too much then we can consider cutting back.

[Xarge VI]

I don't think there are too many locations. But i do think the point about starting locations is valid, it is better to put noobs together.

Also im not a big fan of pirate, radiant heart. Etc description tags as they degenerate investigative and espionage rp into a spot/lore check.

I think the pirate quests are cool. But maybe the rewards should be less tattoos and more sencliff abilities (more smuggler locations, snitch, cheaper prices etc.)

[Void]

I'm really dissapointed that no-one has addressed my concerns.
Our playercount will drop.

They were addressed.
However your proposed actions will kill the server outright or drop population to something like 30 active players at peak. Some of the concerns do not seem to match reality. There's also a matter of you having preference for specific type of gameplay and not really trying to take the other approaches into account.

Expansion and a drop in population is wildly unsustainable. It doesn't matter if what we have is perfect for the UK and East Coast USA today - We're already struggling for activity in a huge number of places, and this will only increase.

Arelith is currently the most played nwn server.
Currently it is in "don't fix it if it ain't broken" state.
It works as is and the sky isn't falling.

------

I don't care if my suggestions are utter unrealistic garbage that would cost us 98% of the playerbase. No-one is going to impliment any of my suggestions - I'm not part of the staff in any way shape nor form.

Then why post them in the first place?

[garrbear758]

I do not speak for the admin team, so don't take this as official word just because I have a yellow name. I just make random stuff for classes, most of which is coming from the approved suggestions.

I'm in an australian timezone. Everytime I go into skal, cordor, or andunor, there are people everywhere. Cities are gathering points where you can meet people and plan an adventure. If you want to go to upper shyr, make some friends and do it. If you want to delve into the abyss, make some friends and do it.

Having a ton of wilderness and dungeon areas is a good thing. They should be relatively empty. Running into someone there should be exciting. Some areas (especially lower level ones), already have issues of overcrowding in dungeons/writ areas. The way I see it, you should use cities (which are crowded at almost all times except for a few hour window late at night in Aussie times, as a hub for meeting / RPing, then you can leave said hub to go explore an untouched wilderness. If you run into someone, awesome. If you don't, then you have the people you brought with you to RP with.

If you'd like to run into someone in the wilderness, either go to a more popular section, or play a ranger and find some tracks to follow. Immersion would be ruined if every time you started an adventure in baator you ran into five other groups and had to 'wait in line' to get your grind on. This is an RP server not Everquest.

TLDR: This isn't official word. Cities are populated even during most off peak hours. The wilderness should be mostly empty.

[Ork]

I disagree with everything you've posted here JustMonika. Arelith is more playable and more party friendly than ever, and we're not in threat of losing playerbase. If the UMD change didn't kill this server, I'm beginning to think nothing can.

[Baron Saturday]

We're spreading out our playerbase, badly.

Snipped the above, as it seems to be your main concern. To address it, I think it's worth remembering that, just because there are areas being added to the server now, it does not mean that the server cannot shrink in future if the playerbase does. As you likely remember, it has happened before, most notably with the UD players being condensed into a single geographic location, Andunor, because there were simply so few around. In the time since the enhanced edition came out, there has been a demand for MORE - more space, more housing, more starting locations. The growth you're seeing now is a direct result of that.

I think it is fair to say that the admin team keeps a close eye on server population when creating areas, and is both able and willing to take action if it feels that players are becoming too spread out.