New spells - But what about clerics?

[Oaks]

In my opinion it's awesome that we keep adding new spells. More variety in nearly all things is really cool to have on the server.
I (think I) know that ActionReplay does these, and the Wild Mage path is kind of their baby. Thank you for all the work you've done on all that.

What I want to talk about is that on top of the 100 additional effects Wild Mages get, sorcerer/wizard spells keep being added, with a bard and druid spell here and there.

Cleric is really singled out on this one, off the top of my head they only get a handful of noteworthy new spells, those being:

Darkbolt (Evocation)
Soundlance (Evocation)
Wrathful Castigation (Enchantment)
Halt Undead (Necromancy)

I could add Detect Poison (Divination), but every spellcaster gets that, and it's mechanically (PVE/PVP) irrelevant.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could give other classes more possibilities as well, not just wizards (with better spellsbooks for sorcerers as a side-effect)? Adding spells to those terrible spell schools in some classes? Like Divination and Enchantment in the cleric spellbook. The cleric spellbook doesn't really need a whole lot more Evocation and Necromancy options (while a few more are certainly nice). Before anything else, it needs use-worthy Divination, more Transmutation and Enchantment spells.

"But how does this nerf clerics?" - Well, it doesn't. Then again it shouldn't buff them either, just add more options for caster clerics.

[AstralUniverse]

The rumor is cleric domains may or may not be reworked in the future. And this trend of "Oh this class got cookies, I want cookies for my class too" really needs to stop.

[Exordius]

And this trend of "Oh this class got cookies, I want cookies for my class too" really needs to stop.

When a specific class is getting all the cookies and others are getting next to nothing one should demand them. Cleric needs more spells, wizard does not, there is no further argument.

[Archnon]

The rumor is cleric domains may or may not be reworked in the future. And this trend of "Oh this class got cookies, I want cookies for my class too" really needs to stop.

I really don't understand this perspective. We are not here harping on balance, or don't need to be. There is already a thread for that where we can get out all that toxicity in one go.

The question is rooted in a desire to see new improvements for the server that open up new gameplay options and expand RP potential. What spells would be fun? How would they fit in? What can be drawn from cannon? The aim is not to benefit my preferred class or character, because most of us RP lots of different avenues but to create a more diverse play experience across the board. Jumping in and accusing people that post this of some sort of toxic behavior implies something about their goals that is just not there. It happened here and it happened on my thread asking the same question about rangers and paladins. It stifles conversation about exciting new potentials and is disheartening.

[Seven Sons of Sin]

It certainly makes you wonder why you'd ever want to play anything besides a wizard.

This is the age of wizards.

It's like we're in 2009 again (except they had battleclerics too).

[Wuthering]

I think we got an answer on the status of clerics in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27452&p=217381#p217381

Meaning eventually but probably not soon.

FWIW I am fine with wizards and sorcs having more variety. They're classes that should be flinging tons of different spells and researching new ways to use the arcane.. Clerics are safer and more boring. Not that I'd object to new spells of course but the pace seems appropriate.

[Ork]

These topics would be fine ordinarily. It becomes an issue when immediately following some buff or cookie for some other class people clamoring for "what about X", and I commented the same on Archnon's post. It communicates a sense of unappreciation that the poster may not truly be trying to convey. The same thing happens when Skal gets new areas or Cordor or the Underdark and you get people immediately commenting, "but what about Guldorand?"

I know that's not your intent, but it is certainly an implied communication.

[AstralUniverse]

It certainly makes you wonder why you'd ever want to play anything besides a wizard.

This is the age of wizards.

It's like we're in 2009 again (except they had battleclerics too).

If you'd ask me, casters in general are in a very strong point right now. This isnt about wizards vs clerics, its about casters in general. Wizards have more boons than other classes because they simply have more feats for epic spell focuses. This has been the case (again) since about when epic spell focuses got commands. Clerics dont really lack any tools to do anything from dungeon content to RP.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

As everyone mentioned, cleric work is on the way, but its staple for their to be more arcane spells than divine ones, especially since divine casters automatically know all of their spells.

[CookieMonster]

But, how does this Nerf Clerics?

[Seven Sons of Sin]

but its staple for their to be more arcane spells than divine ones, especially since divine casters automatically know all of their spells.

Is this an actual hindrance? Is it an objective to overload wizards with so much choice that they can't get all their spells through NPC merchants and level up selections?

If that's an end goal, I'm all for it. Otherwise, it's hardly a hurdle at all.

[Exordius]

its staple for their to be more arcane spells than divine ones

Actually no its not, when D&D first started yes but by the end of 3.5 there were thousands of divine spells one could possibly have access to. Now obviously we can't have THAT many but there should be many more then there are currently.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

its staple for their to be more arcane spells than divine ones

Actually no its not, when D&D first started yes but by the end of 3.5 there were thousands of divine spells one could possibly have access to. Now obviously we can't have THAT many but there should be many more then there are currently.

Well not everyone has the same philosophes on non ending count of splat books of 3.x, but i hear what you mean (i hated some of the addded spells for arcane too as it really monkeyed with balance and themes of certain schools). I know in nwn 2 there was a hardcode issue where you maxed out your spellbook and actaully couldnt literally learn all the spells when enough custom spells were added to the server. I mean if there are balanced spells some devs are passionate entering in for divine casters, it is definitely not a bad thing. Just not needed/mandatory/what have you.

[ActionReplay]

I'm all for adding more Cleric spells, if you have any cool ideas or source of some spells I'll gladly have a look at them and see how feaseable it is to add it.

[Dr. B]

I can't think of any specific spells that need to be added, but I would look into making the cleric's lower-level healing spells more useful, so that there are actually reasons to use them at low levels instead of relying on vastly more effective potions and kits.

[cowboy]

Clerics should gain most of their variety from their domains, which usually use other spells from other classes.

Cleric domains have yet to be overhauled.

The cleric "GENERIC SPELLBOOK" is fairly generic in PnP because its meant to be touched up by the domains. I think a few spells should be added to the cleric however.

I suggested this. Along with tweaks to current and future to really take advantage of this and to make it so you /can/ take domains in NWN and still be useful.

Cat's Grace at Spell Level 2, See Invisibility at Spell Level 2 or 3, Lesser planar binding at Spell Level 5, Planar binding at Spell Level 6, Greater Planar binding at Spell Level 8, and Haste at Spell Level 5.

Clerics are actually poor enchanters and illusionists in PnP but obviously specific domains make it so people are better at those (and to frame their spells around the themes of their god - you can imagine a cleric of Sehanine Moonbow to have moon and illusion.)

[Archnon]

Since my thread got hijacked by negativity, might i have permission from OP to suggest that some love to all divine classes could be appropriate. I want to point out this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=23617

People thought, Bard and Druid most needed spells. Ranger Cleric and Wizard all come in second on this list.

Is there a place we can recommend spells from pnp for Cleric and other classes. Some of the rangers spells on this list d20 SRD material are really interesting and might even provide some RP opportunities:

https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/rangerSpells.htm

[Exordius]

I'm all for adding more Cleric spells, if you have any cool ideas or source of some spells I'll gladly have a look at them and see how feaseable it is to add it.

There are two cleric spells which already exist on many nwn servers: Frost Breath and Hypothermia. Both are low level damage spells which deal cold damage and would make a nice addition imho.

[Opustus]

Rather than wanting to change the server and make suggestions to devs, we could just toss ideas for the heck of it as a fun exercise? There doesn't have to be any gain in it except the love for the sport.

I'd actually love to see spells like "Create food and water" for clerics. Totally useless because it's dirt cheap and available, but roleplaying Jesus is fun, right? Symbol would be a cool spell and you could splash it around like spray paint to leave the logo of your deity on the ground, maybe working like Glyph of Warding. Guiding Bolt would be fun as a low-level damage spell for clerics, and it's become iconic because it's so strong.

I would like to see more damaging spells across the spell levels to make offensive cleric casters a thing. The domains could also help with that, broadening the range of good elemental spells yoinked from the arcane spellbooks.

[Oaks]

Re-modelled 5e spells:

Geas
5th-level enchantment

Range: 60 feet
Duration: 30 days

You place a magical command on a creature that you can see within range, forcing it to carry out some service or refrain from some action or course of activity as you decide.

If the creature can understand you, it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become charmed by you for the duration. While the creature is charmed by you, it takes 5d10 psychic damage each time it acts in a manner directly counter to your instructions, but no more than once each day. A creature that can’t understand you is unaffected by the spell.

You can issue any command you choose, short of an activity that would result in certain death. Should you issue a suicidal command, the spell ends. You can end the spell early by using an action to dismiss it. A Remove Curse, Greater Restoration, or Wish spell also ends it.

Could be turned into something like "Lesser Geas" that deals damage to a single target attacking you - classic biteback.

Tongues
3rd-level divination

Range: Touch
Duration: 1 hour

This spell grants the creature you touch the ability to understand any spoken language it hears. Moreover, when the target speaks, any creature that knows at least one language and can hear the target understands what it says.

Short duration of understanding all languages, non-scribable, non-wandable.

Locate Creature
4th-level divination

Range: Self
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour

Describe or name a creature that is familiar to you. You sense the direction to the creature’s location, as long as that creature is within 1,000 feet of you. If the creature is moving, you know the direction of its movement.

The spell can locate a specific creature known to you, or the nearest creature of a specific kind (such as a human or a unicorn), so long as you have seen such a creature up close – within 30 feet – at least once. If the creature you described or named is in a different form, such as being unfer the effects of a polymorph spell, this spell doesn’t locate the creature.

This spell can’t locate a creature if running water at least 10 feet wide blocks a direct path between you and the creature.

Could give you directions to a named person. ("Billy is some way north." "Howard is located far to the east from you.")

Command
1st-level enchantment

Range: 60 feet
Duration: 1 round

You speak a one-word command to a creature you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or follow the command on its next turn. The spell has no effect if the target is undead, if it doesn’t understand your language, or if your command is directly harmful to it. Some typical commands and their effects follow. You might issue a command other than one described here. If you do so, the DM determines how the target behaves. If the target can’t follow your command, the spell ends.

Approach. The target moves toward you by the shortest and most direct route, ending its turn if it moves within 5 feet of you.

Drop. The target drops whatever it is holding and then ends its turn.

Flee. The target spends its turn moving away from you by the fastest available means.

Grovel. The target falls prone and then ends its turn.

Halt. The target doesn’t move and takes no actions. A flying creature stays aloft, provided that it is able to do so. If it must move to stay aloft, it flies the minimum distance needed to remain in the air.

Some mild CC or debuff.

Warding Bond
2nd-level abjuration

Range: Touch
Duration: 1 hour

This spell wards a willing creature you touch and creates a mystic connection between you and the target until the spell ends.

While the target is within 60 feet of you, it gains a +1 bonus to AC and saving throws, and it has resistance to all damage. Also, each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage.

The spell ends if you drop to 0 hit points or if you and the target become separated by more than 60 feet. It also ends if the spell is cast again on either of the connected creatures. You can also dismiss the spell as an action.

Seems okay the way it is.



Few ideas for a start, there's more options, of course.