Illusion Clone watch too much monk videos

[C2]

So, I have been using ESP:Illusion clones for a bit now on an Zen Archer build, thing is, my clone likes to unequip their bow to charge at enemies once they are in melee range, which is very silly, seeing as I have lesser proficiency in punching people than with my bow, and with point blank shot feat, I would benefit more from shooting things in melee range.

Is it possible for Qol fix, or an option for my illusion clone to stick purely at shooting people with a bow instead of unequipping it and trying to punch things instead?

[darthkitteh]

do they ever fire it? Might be that they have no ammo.

[xanrael]

It's the base game AI, you can see the same thing for critters like skeletal archers.

I've played the same and barring a change which I see as unlikely I would use the Associate Tool on the simulacrum/clone specifically if it looked like they might get into melee, especially as it will often assist even without a target assigned. If you're in a group you could tether it to someone that also likes to stand back and be free from micromanaging it the vast majority of the time.

Generally the clones will spam the "No Ammo" text for a bit when they run out.

[C2]

Yeah, they do spam the message if they are out, but the problem is once they start unequiping their ranged weapon, they will stick to melee only, and only ever once the fight is over (by the sound of the fight-over music), will the clone re-equip their ranged weapons. this applies to clones that is tethered to someone that is standing in the back, once enemies get in range, they just go hulk hogan and never stop to pick back up their bows after the enemy that was in melee range was dead

[Nitro]

The illusion clone wasn't actually meant as a combat tool, but an RP one. So I don't think any combat buffs are likely to be forthcoming.

[C2]

If the illusion clone aren't meant to be combat tools, then why have them copy the stats of a character entirely, down from weapon to even the ammo you use?

And it isn't really a buff in the sense, is more like, making the Ai, clone Ai, just use the thing that they are proficient in, that 'you' are proficient much in, I don't think it another archer would just, drop their bows and run up to punch people in melee range.

Watching my poor archer run off into a melee while standing right aside a battle or someone that isn't in melee range isn't really what my own archer would do in RP, so why should my Clone be so suicidal?

[Sockss]

If the illusion clone aren't meant to be combat tools, then why have them copy the stats of a character entirely, down from weapon to even the ammo you use?

So they're better illusions.

[Shadowy Reality]

I don't see any real issue in allowing the clone to shoot arrows, it is not going to break anything.

Meanwhile, as an alternative you can try to equip a melee weapon before creating the clone. I don't remember if the shield is also copied (it is not, for the Shadowdancer shadows at least),

[Opustus]

Shield is copied, can confirm! Also, buffs to equipment are translated to the clone. E.g. Magic vestment cast on armour gives the clone magic vestment enchanted armour. Dunno if the bonus is subject to the caster's duration or permanent.

[AstralUniverse]

I don't see any real issue in allowing the clone to shoot arrows, it is not going to break anything.

You really dont see how a functional well built archer copying themselves is game breaking, were it to work smoothly with ammo and everything? I sure hope it doesnt work with throwing weapons.

[Shadowy Reality]

I don't see any real issue in allowing the clone to shoot arrows, it is not going to break anything.

You really dont see how a functional well built archer copying themselves is game breaking, were it to work smoothly with ammo and everything? I sure hope it doesnt work with throwing weapons.

I was under the impression it worked like the Shadowdancer clone. That is, it copied stats and gear, but gear was plain, no properties whatsoever.

If this is not the case then there is indeed an issue, but being an archer is irrelevant to the case and you should argue the same for a well built melee character too. There is no reason why they should be treated differently.

[Opustus]

The requirements for the clone action are pretty steep and effectively render builds utilising it a nonissue. The lowest requirement is "the ability to cast level 9 spells", which means investment into casting stat and at minimum 17 levels of Cleric or Wizzy (dunno what level Shaman and Favored Soul get their level 9 spells).

A cloned Cleric27/Dump3 comes out a bit underwhelming without the key offensive buffs. Heavy wizzies don't have the BAB progression nor the defensive buffs to make good use of the summon. Out of the high CL builds, Healer Cleric27/Monk3 with Zen Archery probably utilises the clone the best, but it ain't cheap; that's a 2 pre-epic feats and 1 epic feat for one glitchy summon that eventually runs out of arrows.

There are some fabulous memes built around the concept like Clerk/WM/Fighter, Clerk/Rogue, Clerk/Bard/AA, but they all suffer from the same wants, above all their bare-arsed dispellability and consequential reduction to nuffinness.

[Shadowy Reality]

I remember back when it was introduced thinking of those meme builds and they were terrible yes, because your CL was going down the drain.

However, I just read the wiki and it seems to imply you can copy someone else too, so technically you could copy your average weaponmaster? That sounds scary if item properties are indeed copied too, which means you don't need to give up any CL.

At this point I think we are sorta derailing the thread though. I still think if melee illusions can fight, then so should archers, the same paradigm applies to both, it makes no sense to block this on virtue of being ranged or melee. Whether clones themselves can be too strong, that is an entirely different topic, which is very quickly fixed by not copying item properties at all.

[C2]

To answer about cloning others, you cannot clone other people's stats, so if you illusion clone someone other than yourself, the illusion actually still uses 'your' stats, but in that person's image, like, if you illusion a Weapon Master friend, your illusion would have your current stats, and your feats.

To quote the wiki, ' of the target's current gear and the caster's current stats.'

But yes, to be back on topic, I just want the me to stop rushing into mobs with their fist out and get slaughtered while they just pull up their bow and continue to fire, even the feat Point Blank Shot makes it so clone me don't get a disadvantage (disregard the attacks of opportunity) at firing at people at melee distance.

[Rigela]

To my knowledge you just have to keep it out of melee combat with the associate tool, and it should just keep firing arrows.

[C2]

To my knowledge you just have to keep it out of melee combat with the associate tool, and it should just keep firing arrows.

The problem is that, once the clone is in melee combat because of an enemy that they pulled, or that got closed, the clone would just switch to melee, and stay melee until combat ends, or the current enemy they are fighting is dead and they can be pulled away with associate tool.

[Wuthering]

I was under the impression it worked like the Shadowdancer clone. That is, it copied stats and gear, but gear was plain, no properties whatsoever.

If this is not the case then there is indeed an issue, but being an archer is irrelevant to the case and you should argue the same for a well built melee character too. There is no reason why they should be treated differently.

Illusionary clones and shadows seem to be completely different scripts. Shadows copy your final stats and if you're buffed that's their baseline (so you can double-buff if you buff first, then buff the shadow again.) If you're shapechanged I believe they use the shapechanged stats too (maybe I misremember that, it's been a while, but pretty sure that's the case.) There's some ridiculous things people pull off with stuff like werewolf shadows that are borderline game-breaking if you ask me.

Clones copy gear but they're your character's stats pre-buffs whether you cast them or not, and I believe the clones ignore all shapeshifting (sorry to everyone who thought they were the first to make a druid illusionist double-monolith and found the double is just their character naked.) As mentioned if you double someone or something else it is just your stats too- no copying boss monsters to use their stats. They can fight and the description makes me believe a little combat ability is intended but in all practicality they're more a gimmick than anything. A doubled archer can get a decoy turret with 500 shots which is pretty nice but when you actually try to use you'll find it's so finnicky it's almost not worth the effort. Definitely speeds PVE along on a good day, may have some advantage in group PVP, definitely not going to let you dominate in one-on-one. I think anyone who suggests they're overpowered has never actually tried to play one outside the PGCC.

* I admit I may be misremembering some details here, I put both of these through their paces but can't remember everything, so please correct me if something is wrong.