They have to cross-class into shadowdancer, the built-in sacrifice of which is supposed to be losing your caster level advancement to do so, but they get a customized, Arelith exclusive script that eliminates the opportunity cost of lost caster levels. There's also zero opportunity costs in the way of class slots, because it's literally the best multi-class option for the path. And if you can't function with full spells, HiPS, and full stealth, you still have a third class to dip for discipline.Apokriphos wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 5:05 amShadowmage PCs do not have access to hide or move silently, let alone listen. They are wizards in every way with the exception of losing permanent access to Evocation in all its forms (WoF scrolls, wands and items included).Aelryn Bloodmoon wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 5:00 amSnark, but at least your snark strives to make a point, so thanks for that, and I'll address it-Dr. B wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 3:09 am Please add a class that can do everything the other classes can do so that I can play a pureclass character.
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Why not? We made scrolls lore-based. I also don't understand how anyone can make such a statement in this discussion with a straight face if they aren't presently raging and crusading against the existence of shadowmage, which gets not only spot as a class skill with its full caster level progression, but also hide, move silently, listen, and HiPS. Unless the stance is that only evil-deity-locked classes deserve to get toys from other classes.
They have to cross-class to get access to these skills, the same as any other PC.
It's like saying that multiclassing as a Harper Mage is a cost for any good aligned mage. It's not true- it's a net positive even after the feat requirements. There's pretty much nothing better they can take to be a better mage.
Dipping 4 SD also allows you to push more of your mage feats into the latest of your epic levels if you dip, which means you'll have a higher spellcraft score and be able to do more of the better mage feat things than the shadowmage that doesn't dip.
I see how it affects your vision of Arelith balance, but I've never been secretive about the fact that I believe characters should be more reliant on other characters and less reliant on their inventory, purchased with ridiculous amounts of gold that were pretty much never meant to be in the hands of a single character, in table-top or in any of the OC content.Ork wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 5:11 am If you can't see how this "exploit" would've ruined server balance, I don't think your opinion on balance should even be entertained.
I also think I functioned just fine before the "fix," including on my non-mage alts - everyone else's obsession with being able to be invulnerable to everything (read:everyONE) else all the time from something they have in their inventory is their anxiety problem, not mine- life goes on, or you die. Fortunately, it's a game, and there's a respawn button - I think if there weren't five million disposable inventory solutions to all IC problems, that people might actually worry a little less about "winning shotgun PVP," and have a little more time to focus on their stories, or even be creative and discover "outside the box" battle tactics.
At the end of the day, we gave shadowdancers caster-level progression. Making a big deal about giving a class spot in the wake of that seems disingenuous to me, using my opinion about an unrelated subject to justify it more-so, and while I'm all for spirited debates, lately we always seem to be on opposite sides and I can't help but wonder if your only real investment in the thread was to take a pot shot at me or not - I'd prefer to think otherwise, but based on your sole comment so far, as well as an earlier removed one and Dr. B's, perhaps you can see how I might be feeling like there's a trend going on here?
Do you have anything substantive to say about any of the points relative to the OP other than an opinion about my qualifications as a gamer? Because I'm honestly fine if you feel that I'm the worst player in the world. I want to know why you think giving spot to mages who can already get it by dipping shadowdancer if they're Shar-worshippers is going to break the server.
