Manor Mourn: Update the Spawns

[cowboy]

Manor Mourn is an old, old dungeon.

Some things that are not broken do not need fixed - however the spawns in that place are "all over" and do not seem to make much sense. They're also wildly disproportion in CR and you can't really prepare to go there except with massive parties, gimmicky builds to take the brunt of the beatings. You can theoretically face super high AC targets, super high STR and AB and DMG targets, and things with bite back all in one spawn.

Problematic spawns:
Scared Little Girls & Boys; they are not undead, have undead immunities, and are each insanely overpowered. Also they're "children", so I think these should just be done away with. It seems they're supposed to be 'thralls' but thralls of vampires don't have on hit level drain slams and only receive minor bonuses. I'd replace them with vampire spawn or more toned down human minions.

Dread Mages / Dread Anything Humans - the dread mages have acid sheaths and spam quite a few spells. I am told these are really, really old spawns. Maybe 86 them and replace them with vampire magi or something.

The "ENTROPIC SORCERORS" were removed from the abyss and are fodder for the boss fight. They're not very good except for acid sheath.

Spawn Themes:
The dungeon seems to have some sort of lore of a Demonic Overlord and a Coven of Vampires. Maybe focus on the spawns between outsiders and undead so its easier to prepare for. Maybe have mixtures between vampire thralls / still living cultists, vampire elites, and occasional demi-boss tier fiends.

Maybe give each tower a fiendish "mini boss" that prepares you for the "big boss".

Spawn CRs:
These are all over the place. Some of the spawns are basic Dread Wraiths / Powerful Wraiths which can flank you but are easily dispatched. Some of the vampires might be made of cardboard. The fiends around the boss die like nothing - and the "dread humans" are insanely strong and put to shame the vampires you were just fighting (except for the scared little girls and boys).

All in all, I do not mind this dungeon - its just aged a bit badly and could use some TLC in the form of a solid theme so you can prepare against it. (especially now that its a radiant writ - this is not something a group of 3-4 mid epics can just "do" out of the blue one afternoon, you have to plan for it and not in a good way)

[-XXX-]

The layout pf the dungeon isn't ideal either. Once someone unlocks the final tower, it stays unlocked up until the next reset, allowing everyone who comes after that to pretty much skip the entire dungeon and go straight for the boss fight.

[cowboy]

The layout pf the dungeon isn't ideal either. Once someone unlocks the final tower, it stays unlocked up until the next reset, allowing everyone who comes after that to pretty much skip the entire dungeon and go straight for the boss fight.

Yes. It also has a couple "hehe should have brought a rogue" doors. as well.

I am thinking the one in the Catacomb before Chi, I do not think you can get inside w/o a rogue or knock scroll or something. Probably should have a leaver or can bash it.

[Red_Wharf]

Just to add to everything that's been said, the dungeon's design and looks also aged very badly when you compare them to the beautiful new areas constantly being added to the server. Mourn looks like something I could make in the Toolset myself, and that says a lot about the dungeon because I have no experience with the Toolset at all.

[The Rambling Midget]

I think that a new storyline for the place would help to guide the necessary adjustments.

It does seem pretty strange to have vampires, humans who obviously aren't cattle, planar beings, and that boss all in the same place, without some justification.

The current storyline is "Hah! You didn't tailor a powerbuild specifically to this dungeon? Get outta here, n00b!"

While the door sequence is problematic, there's a lot to work with, and I don't think it'd take too much effort to revamp(ire).

[BHR55]

Fear of the children is the punishment for this dungeon.

[chris a gogo]

I like this dungeon.

Ive soloed it with a monk with zero planning just wondered what was through the transition and I went there no preparation, completed the dungeon and really enjoyed it, was difficult at times but nothing I found OP.

Went there a second time with a large group still enjoyed it.

[Anomandaris]

I really wish there were more dungeons that had people writing posts about saying it was too OP. Content on the server is generally very easy. I would love to see parties of 4-5 epics getting thrashed and having to be very deliberate about how they approach an area. And an area that is "unsoloable" for the most part. Whether the layout is wonky or there's inconsistencies is another subject, but please don't nerf the dungeon.

[AstralUniverse]

I like this dungeon.

Ive soloed it with a monk with zero planning just wondered what was through the transition and I went there no preparation, completed the dungeon and really enjoyed it, was difficult at times but nothing I found OP.

Went there a second time with a large group still enjoyed it.

Lol.

I also soloed it on a monk recently. Its like... few classes really do well there and that's it. The children are just ridiculous. I have no idea what the intention is behind this mob.

You dont have enough spot? 100 damage sneaks at really high ab.
Are there more of them than your group? same as above.
You got KD? good job, the kids got effectively 0 ac and discipline.

Everything else is this dungeon is around lvl 20~ area, except the kids and maybe the barrow wright and the coven leader which there are really few of those usually.

If your build happens to suit this dungeon, it will be easy while for most builds it is not normally worth going to, just because of those kids (which have low ac, hp and no discipline and I dont consider them OP, just broken to both directions). I used to LOVE that dungeon back in 2016 when I used to solo it with a favoured soul quite effortlessly and now it can be done on different classes but its like a roulette. "Do I have a monk or a shadowdancer and someone with good detection on my group? A healer at least? No? Then lets go anywhere but Mourn."

[Might-N-Magic]

Love the dungeon, leave it (mostly) alone. Turn the "beast" type monsters into full-fledged werewolves, add a massive flesh golem (with mad scientist dad), and make the big bad a vampire that makes Strahd look like a candy Snuggybear.

[Kuma]

it's a relic of an ancient design philosophy, i have a hunch if it were to be touched the current team would probably redo the entire thing instead. call me a pessimist, tho

[Hunter548]

I really wish there were more dungeons that had people writing posts about saying it was too OP. Content on the server is generally very easy. I would love to see parties of 4-5 epics getting thrashed and having to be very deliberate about how they approach an area. And an area that is "unsoloable" for the most part. Whether the layout is wonky or there's inconsistencies is another subject, but please don't nerf the dungeon.

There's a difference between dungeons that are strong or difficult, and dungeons that are unfair or arbitrary. Mourn leans heavily towards the latter. There's plenty of difficult dungeons that aren't arbitrarily so (Maur, as an example).

[Anomandaris]

I really wish there were more dungeons that had people writing posts about saying it was too OP. Content on the server is generally very easy. I would love to see parties of 4-5 epics getting thrashed and having to be very deliberate about how they approach an area. And an area that is "unsoloable" for the most part. Whether the layout is wonky or there's inconsistencies is another subject, but please don't nerf the dungeon.

There's a difference between dungeons that are strong or difficult, and dungeons that are unfair or arbitrary. Mourn leans heavily towards the latter. There's plenty of difficult dungeons that aren't arbitrarily so (Maur, as an example).

I feel ya it’s an old dungeon and needs some work to be more consistent. But I like that it can kick your teeth in if you’re not ready for it.

I wouldn’t consider Maurs difficult for two well built lvl 30 PCs or even a small party of lvl 20-29. Uldos is probably more unforgiving but that is pretty easy with the right partner at 30. All in all there are tons of fun dungeons, but I do wish there were some that actually really threatened a lvl 30 PC let alone a party. Players are smart so it’s tough to do from a design standpoint. I just don’t want anything to be made easier cuz ppl get killed there. “Fix it” sure, but make it brutal.

[AstralUniverse]

Bring back the Lycans. Those were a real challenge. Some damage reduction, high ac high ab. lots of apr. You see a group of those coming to you and you're like "Maybe i can fight those" but then that one sneaky kid murders you out of no where. Good times. I think... bring back the lycans, lower the kids spawn rate and it's already a serious improvements.

[TimeAdept]

Fear of the children is the punishment for this dungeon.

Please don't ever change it, those kids are probably some of the oldest spawns on the entire server dating back to like release of HoTU era

the data that comprises those kid spawns may be older than some players

and the cycle of terror must be perpetuated.

[TimeAdept]

it's a relic of an ancient design philosophy, i have a hunch if it were to be touched the current team would probably redo the entire thing instead. call me a pessimist, tho

I WOULD CRY, KUMA

[Halibutthead]

last time i did mourn was actually a couple of months ago (my buddy got all arelith'ed out shortly after we got to epics). i was a level 21 healer, he was a level 20 wm. the mobs really were all over the place with threats, and it could use some balancing more than nerfing imo

[BHR55]

Bring back the Lycans. Those were a real challenge. Some damage reduction, high ac high ab. lots of apr. You see a group of those coming to you and you're like "Maybe i can fight those" but then that one sneaky kid murders you out of no where. Good times. I think... bring back the lycans, lower the kids spawn rate and it's already a serious improvements.

I miss those lycans. My old stomping ground. :tear tear:

I second TimeAdept, bring back the Lycans too, and wasnt the boss a Dracolich(got it confused with the old Earl's manor maybe, miss that place too)?

[JubJub]

Problem with those spawns is they have undead immunites yet aren't undead, I don't mind them being tough but what they are suppose to be has never made sense.

[TimeAdept]

Bring back the Lycans. Those were a real challenge. Some damage reduction, high ac high ab. lots of apr. You see a group of those coming to you and you're like "Maybe i can fight those" but then that one sneaky kid murders you out of no where. Good times. I think... bring back the lycans, lower the kids spawn rate and it's already a serious improvements.

I miss those lycans. My old stomping ground. :tear tear:

I second TimeAdept, bring back the Lycans too, and wasnt the boss a Dracolich(got it confused with the old Earl's manor maybe, miss that place too)?

The Dracolich was a miniboss in the Manor and I forget his name but it was something sufficiently silly like "Fuzzy" or "Sprinkles".

I'm only for bringing back the Lycans if we also rename the boss to Kraven the Master so we just revive the fact that the Manor of Mourn was literally just the Underworld movie. (Lycans fighting Vampires with "Kraven".)

[BHR55]

Bring back the Lycans. Those were a real challenge. Some damage reduction, high ac high ab. lots of apr. You see a group of those coming to you and you're like "Maybe i can fight those" but then that one sneaky kid murders you out of no where. Good times. I think... bring back the lycans, lower the kids spawn rate and it's already a serious improvements.

I miss those lycans. My old stomping ground. :tear tear:

I second TimeAdept, bring back the Lycans too, and wasnt the boss a Dracolich(got it confused with the old Earl's manor maybe, miss that place too)?

The Dracolich was a miniboss in the Manor and I forget his name but it was something sufficiently silly like "Fuzzy" or "Sprinkles".

I'm only for bringing back the Lycans if we also rename the boss to Kraven the Master so we just revive the fact that the Manor of Mourn was literally just the Underworld movie. (Lycans fighting Vampires with "Kraven".)

+1 Your right!

[preggy]

In a similar vein perhaps the Malar temple could be looked at as well. That thing is from around the same Era in that EVERYTHING HAS TRUE SEEING.

[cowboy]

Having now done this twice as well;

It has no exit portal another QoL most deep dungeons have.

please

[Twohand]

Having now done this twice as well;

It has no exit portal another QoL most deep dungeons have.

please

I remember doing a Mourn run some time after an event happened there. We found there a DM-made source portal in the last tower of the dungeon that lasted until the next reset. It was beautiful, ngl.

[AstralUniverse]

Bring back the Lycans. Those were a real challenge. Some damage reduction, high ac high ab. lots of apr. You see a group of those coming to you and you're like "Maybe i can fight those" but then that one sneaky kid murders you out of no where. Good times. I think... bring back the lycans, lower the kids spawn rate and it's already a serious improvements.

I miss those lycans. My old stomping ground. :tear tear:

I second TimeAdept, bring back the Lycans too, and wasnt the boss a Dracolich(got it confused with the old Earl's manor maybe, miss that place too)?

The Dracolich was a miniboss in the Manor and I forget his name but it was something sufficiently silly like "Fuzzy" or "Sprinkles".

I'm only for bringing back the Lycans if we also rename the boss to Kraven the Master so we just revive the fact that the Manor of Mourn was literally just the Underworld movie. (Lycans fighting Vampires with "Kraven".)

Yeah I agree. Loved the first movie. If Lycans get a comeback but vamps arent removed maybe they could be fighting one another like the demons and devils in baator.