Skal mark of destiny

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

First off id initiating rp with skal like from trade or recruiting perspective now frowned upon or mark material? because one of the joys of going to skal (i did multiple times before 20) is reaching a hard to reach place

I feel a mark of destiny will only cause players who feel their story is in Skal to double down and never leave/move on unless they are given the option to lose the mark by leaving.

[Irongron]

Dms will judge this case by case, but it is very much for those who elect to stay on Skal indefnitely, and should only serve to encourage them avoid using their superior strength in PvP.

[Exordius]

Question... is it still permitted for high levels to occasionally visit Skal? I rather like the place and its nice to hang out there now and then.

[Irongron]

Question... is it still permitted for high levels to occasionally visit Skal? I rather like the place and its nice to hang out there now and then.

Absolutely fine.

[niar3tir]

Arelith is an old server, and every settlement, every play area is long-established. A low level area isn't just about making it convenient for players of a similar level to meet up and adventure (but that is great!), it is also about granting them agency; established areas of the server are dominated by established factions and PCs, and there is very often little room to breathe for new characters wishing to make an impact. Their stories, are often brushed to one side, if not flat out ignored. On Skal they can take centre stage, forming real bonds with those around them, and not being obliged to play second fiddle to those further up the pecking order.

Take example from Skal and start changing the rest, do not punish those that stay. They do it because they found a place where their characters mean something, where they can create something together with others and not be beholden by anyone, PC or NPC.

Why should they leave? What is there to do, once you've reached lvl 30? Can you be king of Cordor? Can you destroy the Freth or Claddath and replace them with a new, player-driven House? Can you research into forbidden magic to break down the hateful Mythal and leave the elves exposed? Will the duregar ever be able to conquer Brog? Even for a time? Can the dwarves retake their ancient underdark fortress? Must there only be raids as interactions surface/underdark?

Far fetched examples, I know, but why must the answer always be no? Ain't much of a fantasy.

Either get rid of the NPCs and let players control most things, or decide on a storyline, and get DMs to pursue it with freedom; not one specific event, tailored to a specific group, but loads of them, small and big ones, everytime and everywhere. Change things up from the top and mess the status quo, so that even those dreaded "cliques" will have to adapt to survive.

I'm here because I would like to share a story, it doesn't have to be a server breaking one, but I'd like it to mean something. Change something. And Skal gives that sense of purpose the rest of the server sadly does not.
Apologies for the spelling,

[Wuthering]

One thing that really struck me in the announcement--

The who server is designed to put almost all players around a single camp-fire, to have them group up, and go out facing the various challenges. This is not only a lot of fun, but by pushing them to form bonds in order to survive, it helps them have real connections when the time comes for them to leave for the larger isle, where it is otherwise extremely easy to feel isolated or anonymous.

This is what I love about Skal. I wish Arelith proper had more of an island of adventurers spirit instead of everything being about politics and who you know/associate with. Aside from wandering the level 3 sewers it's very difficult to get people from different backgrounds to party up. Skal feels like true old school D&D with wildly mixed parties and I wonder if there's any way to capture a little of that magic on the "real' server.

[Irongron]

Take example from Skal and start changing the rest, do not punish those that stay. They do it because they found a place where their characters mean something, where they can create something together with others and not be beholden by anyone, PC or NPC.

Why should they leave? What is there to do, once you've reached lvl 30? Can you be king of Cordor? Can you destroy the Freth or Claddath and replace them with a new, player-driven House? Can you research into forbidden magic to break down the hateful Mythal and leave the elves exposed? Will the duregar ever be able to conquer Brog? Even for a time? Can the dwarves retake their ancient underdark fortress? Must there only be raids as interactions surface/underdark?

Far fetched examples, I know, but why must the answer always be no? Ain't much of a fantasy.

Either get rid of the NPCs and let players control most things, or decide on a storyline, and get DMs to pursue it with freedom; not one specific event, tailored to a specific group, but loads of them, small and big ones, everytime and everywhere. Change things up from the top and mess the status quo, so that even those dreaded "cliques" will have to adapt to survive.

I'm here because I would like to share a story, it doesn't have to be a server breaking one, but I'd like it to mean something. Change something. And Skal gives that sense of purpose the rest of the server sadly does not.
Apologies for the spelling,

I don't feel that asking those that remain to accept an MoD is a punishment, rather it is a signal that they understand the issue raised by playing an epic character in a setting designed for low levels. It is extremely easy to live with an MoD, and in some respects is an extremely lenient approach to the issue of epics on Skal, indeed it may have the opposite effect - already many players have quickly accepted one if it means they are 'free' to remain there, and will find that they level faster as a result.

More than anything I would like players to take away from my post just why the integrity of Skal is important, and why it can very much be undermined by lingering epics.

Finally, if you are such a player this post isn't intended as an attack on you. I merely wished to explain why I made Skal FOR, and to implore you, should you choose to remain there, do so with a very light touch, and remember your presence could serve to minimise the enjoyment of those for whom the server was designed.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

I very much like this. If you'll allow me to revert back to my 90's teenage nerd self, it's almost like agreeing to be the green ranger. You get to wreck face with the dragon zord, a single zord that can take on the megazord (assembled from a team of five zords) by itself, but your Power Candle is cursed and runs out after X amount of time if you don't pass on the torch.

This allows your epic saturday morning cartoon villains (and heroes!), with the understanding that they aren't the main villain, and eventually Rita will be replaced by Zed, Ivan, and whatever crazy alien nonsense followed thereafter in the next 25 iterations of power rangers.

[TimeAdept]

Except that Tommy got freed, and kept being as strong as he ever was, and also got to use Saba and the White Tigerzord.

Presumably the devs realized the Green Ranger was being unnecessarily held back out of the overal meta-storyline, and he was patched to allow his continued dramatic presence without the overt time limit in place.

Zed kept showing up alongside Rita.

Ivan isn't canon.

[niar3tir]

To be clear, I think it would be wounderful with everyone getting a MoD, then you'd see something interesting happen.

I got no stake in the race - wouldn't care even if it WAS an attack on me, its a game damnit! XD - my only char is born and raised in Cordor and is nowhere near epic, but I can oh so clearly see the difference in starting in the big city, and I'm actively jumping at every opportunity to interact with others and be entertaining in the city.

That doesn't change that Skal is a MUCH better starting location, it has a more interesting players dynamic - and every toon I created that started in Skal left and ended up coming right back, just to sit around a fire, and I know of many others that did the same. Why?
'Cause every player feels like it is up to them to change things. The paladin wants to fight against evil, the necromancer/warlock wants a place where they're not instakilled at the mere sight of their summons, the half-orc wants to run around with an axe without ten guards nagging "Nooo, its NOT proper!", finger wagging. Agency. You see so many people trying out so many different things, some work, some fail spectacularly, but no one sits around or feels left out.

I would love for more of the same feeling be brought FROM Skal to the rest of Arelith, instead of the perpetual, immovable status quo
Right now Skal is just a world on its own, and the message is "either leave and don't come back, or roll a new character and start anew"

Doesn't it make sense for an epic wizard who had enough of everyone else bs teleport to a frozen island in the middle of nowhere, create their tower and study in peace? Why only NPCs can be nefarious enough to buy a piece of land and claim it as their own, build a cool new tower and perform terrible experiments on sentients?

The point im tryin' - not that well- to make is, that a cool nice place for new players to start is the best. We all love Skal.
But then when players leave for new adventures, there should be something equally nice and cool waiting for them. Or they'll want to come back, as they do. 9/10 does it for the atmosphere, to feel like they're relevant again, not to lord over the lower levels.
And skal already had an impact - look at the central plaza in Cordor, some enterprising soul built a fire OUTSIDE, with sofas and chairs out in the open. The tavern is one transition away, it always rain, there should be no one - as it was before. Log at any hour, you'll find people leisurely sitting there.

The difference is so stark once you leave that save for banning epic lvl characters you'll always have people returning to Skal, and the response, instead of "we'll have DM's watching", should be "what is so amazingly good in that frozen, god forsaken spek of an island that we can use to improve the rest?"

[Ninjimmy]

Personally, I'm massively in favour of it.

I've seen a few different waves of epics going through Skal and it's very, very rarely been conducive for RP, having a consequence to it as a decision would be a good idea

'Cause every player feels like it is up to them to change things. The paladin wants to fight against evil, the necromancer/warlock wants a place where they're not instakilled at the mere sight of their summons, the half-orc wants to run around with an axe without ten guards nagging "Nooo, its NOT proper!", finger wagging. Agency.

I think this is where you're maybe missing the point, having Epics on Skal robs OTHER PLAYERS of their agency.

The half orc running around with their axe out might be accosted by another player who's working on a Paladin, asks them to put it away, and then gets bisected because the Half Orc is level 27 and the Paladin's a new player at level 5. Same with the Necromancer, the Paladin can't write their story as a defender of good, slayer of undead, because that Necromancer is level 21 and he's level 5. OR Vice-versa, lvl 20 something Paladin and single digit level Necro, you can't be a badass necromancer if the Paladin just smacks your booty every time you try and cast your first 3rd level spell.

The exact thing you seem to believe is a problem on the Mainland is the same on Skal except on Skal you know that the other guy is probably a lowbie so you can swing your weight around with impugnity. You can "build your story" as a badass warrior by smacking down or holding influence over a bunch of people just starting out.

Irongron basically lined out the two types of Skal-permanent lvl 30 players in his post about it, neither of which I would say is ideal for an environment to cut your teeth and learn your character.

I would love for more of the same feeling be brought FROM Skal to the rest of Arelith, instead of the perpetual, immovable status quo
Right now Skal is just a world on its own, and the message is "either leave and don't come back, or roll a new character and start anew"

Doesn't it make sense for an epic wizard who had enough of everyone else bs teleport to a frozen island in the middle of nowhere, create their tower and study in peace? Why only NPCs can be nefarious enough to buy a piece of land and claim it as their own, build a cool new tower and perform terrible experiments on sentients?

The point im tryin' - not that well- to make is, that a cool nice place for new players to start is the best. We all love Skal.
But then when players leave for new adventures, there should be something equally nice and cool waiting for them. Or they'll want to come back, as they do. 9/10 does it for the atmosphere, to feel like they're relevant again, not to lord over the lower levels.

Ignoring the fact I intensely doubt that 9/10 high level players go back for the atmosphere instead of to lord over lower levels, because I'm pretty sure it's classic big fish/small pond syndrome even if the good atmosphere plays a part.

But why the hell would you not feel relevant on the Mainland? There are actual organisations and cities you can join, you can be a part of something that gets involved in larger scale issues instead of sitting around the campfire occasionally flexing on someone who's still levelling. The only difference is you have to start from scratch because you're going to be an unknown quantity, just with the benefit of Greensteel equipment and high level spells so you can get right into the action at the low end of high level.

The Status Quo is only immovable in like... two settlements, off the top of my head, and even then it could well be shifted with enough IC effort, in a fair few others the current moral compass of the settlement is a piking Roulette Wheel.

To use your Wizard Tower example and the "terrible experiments on sentients", which sentients are you referring to? Because the only ones I can think of that you could interact with would be all those low level players. The ones who won't be able to do anything to stop you?

Because you could always try that on the Mainland except there'll be high level players about who might get in the way. Unless you do it in one of the areas where the evil mages hang out, they'd probably help you out and RP with you over the concept.

--

This is all just opinion, of course, but if you're going back to Skal for the atmosphere I'd say that the atmosphere is what you and your fellow players create. I like Skal too and I think it's a better place for everyone if you don't have someone else's RP being enforced on you because they're a higher level.

[AstralUniverse]

I've played a character that stayed WAY past epics. I think after lvl 18 I dont remember a single time I fought anyone below lvl 30. IN Skal. That's my two cents in this.

[magistrasa]

Struggle is the spice of Skal. People who offer the big brother helping hand don't seem to realize how dull of an experience they're creating. Here's hoping these measures help to preserve that sense of difficulty, and the comraderie that emerges in the effort to overcome it.

The only thing I dislike about this new policy is the fact that players who are understood as being a detriment to their surroundings are getting a Mark of Destiny, while Outcasts who put months into a DM-approved redemption arc to drop the tag get a Mark of Despair. Tastes a little bitter.

[Morgy]

I'm not quite sure what people think epics are doing to take away the 'spice'? It's mostly just a few epic folk doing some crafting and RPing with others -- there are rarely Skal events that anyone could muscle in on and no epics are carrying people through dungeons.
Sure, some players might throw clout around in the threat of violence.. but that happens usually from visitors - not long term folk.

I can't help but feel there is a lot of assumptions being made about what actually happens in Skal.

Level 15 seems entirely too low for a MoD too.. The writs go up higher than that and I'd start to feel the pressure to rush any stories I had going on in the 10-15s on Skal.

[Red_Wharf]

there are rarely Skal events that anyone could muscle in

I'm not going to name names or elaborate on the circumstances of the event too much, but the last Skal event I took part in, clearly targeted at characters in the 10-15 level range (most characters in the party were in that range), had its enjoyment diminished by the presence of two Skaljard epic characters who made the challenge of the hostile encounters a cakewalk. The DMs did a great job, it was still a very enjoyable event, but the presence of those epic characters really detracted from the overall experience.

[AstralUniverse]

I'm not quite sure what people think epics are doing to take away the 'spice'? It's mostly just a few epic folk doing some crafting and RPing with others -- there are rarely Skal events that anyone could muscle in on and no epics are carrying people through dungeons.
Sure, some players might throw clout around in the threat of violence.. but that happens usually from visitors - not long term folk.

I can't help but feel there is a lot of assumptions being made about what actually happens in Skal.

Level 15 seems entirely too low for a MoD too.. The writs go up higher than that and I'd start to feel the pressure to rush any stories I had going on in the 10-15s on Skal.

1000% this.

[Floral Shoppe]

there are rarely Skal events that anyone could muscle in

I'm not going to name names or elaborate on the circumstances of the event too much, but the last Skal event I took part in, clearly targeted at characters in the 10-15 level range (most characters in the party were in that range), had its enjoyment diminished by the presence of two Skaljard epic characters who made the challenge of the hostile encounters a cakewalk. The DMs did a great job, it was still a very enjoyable event, but the presence of those epic characters really detracted from the overall experience.

This is how I feel about most events on Arelith itself. As a "nobody" who's only played for 2 years I'm still an unknown and any events I've been around outside Skal have been centered around superstar players or characters, little room for anyone else to be anything but an annoyance or tagalong or spectator in the eyes of both DMs and the center stage players. This has nothing to do with level and everything to do with the culture.

On the Skal events I've been a part of (even as an epic past their prime) there's a real spirit of welcoming even from players and DMs who won't give you the time of day elsewhere. I don't think this new restriction is a bad idea but I think Arelith as a whole needs to see what's special about Skal and bring that to the main game.

Because I think the folks who want to stick around there past level 15 aren't doing it because they want to push newbies around. They stick around because the welcoming and inclusive spirit there does not exist on the other servers.

[Ninjimmy]

I'm not quite sure what people think epics are doing to take away the 'spice'? It's mostly just a few epic folk doing some crafting and RPing with others -- there are rarely Skal events that anyone could muscle in on and no epics are carrying people through dungeons.
Sure, some players might throw clout around in the threat of violence.. but that happens usually from visitors - not long term folk.

I can't help but feel there is a lot of assumptions being made about what actually happens in Skal.

Kinda feel like you've maybe been on the epic end more than the lowbie end and are making you're own assumptions, we all play on Skal, man.

I'm not going to name names or elaborate on the circumstances of the event too much, but the last Skal event I took part in, clearly targeted at characters in the 10-15 level range (most characters in the party were in that range), had its enjoyment diminished by the presence of two Skaljard epic characters who made the challenge of the hostile encounters a cakewalk. The DMs did a great job, it was still a very enjoyable event, but the presence of those epic characters really detracted from the overall experience.

I'm not gonna name names either but I got PVP slammed by a presumed epic after taking the RP out to leave peacefully the last time I was involved in a Skal event, for the heinous crime of not getting a Kobold to leave fast enough. They weren't a visitor either, they were "employed to protect Skal" by whatever the group was at the time that had claimed ownership of the village.

Of course, this isn't to say all Epics on Skal are just here to swing their level stick about but if you're characters aren't engaging in PVP and the toughest enemies are gonna be behind the curve by lvl 18, Mark of Destiny shouldn't even be a concern.

If anything it's a boost since you'll level faster doing just crafting and RP which is what you're saying they mostly do.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I'm not quite sure what people think epics are doing to take away the 'spice'? It's mostly just a few epic folk doing some crafting and RPing with others -- there are rarely Skal events that anyone could muscle in on and no epics are carrying people through dungeons.
Sure, some players might throw clout around in the threat of violence.. but that happens usually from visitors - not long term folk.

I can't help but feel there is a lot of assumptions being made about what actually happens in Skal.

Kinda feel like you've maybe been on the epic end more than the lowbie end and are making you're own assumptions, we all play on Skal, man.

I'm not going to name names or elaborate on the circumstances of the event too much, but the last Skal event I took part in, clearly targeted at characters in the 10-15 level range (most characters in the party were in that range), had its enjoyment diminished by the presence of two Skaljard epic characters who made the challenge of the hostile encounters a cakewalk. The DMs did a great job, it was still a very enjoyable event, but the presence of those epic characters really detracted from the overall experience.

I'm not gonna name names either but I got PVP slammed by a presumed epic after taking the RP out to leave peacefully the last time I was involved in a Skal event, for the heinous crime of not getting a Kobold to leave fast enough. They weren't a visitor either, they were "employed to protect Skal" by whatever the group was at the time that had claimed ownership of the village.

Of course, this isn't to say all Epics on Skal are just here to swing their level stick about but if you're characters aren't engaging in PVP and the toughest enemies are gonna be behind the curve by lvl 18, Mark of Destiny shouldn't even be a concern.

If anything it's a boost since you'll level faster doing just crafting and RP which is what you're saying they mostly do.

I think the concern is that it is now an all or nothing commitment. Having mark Of destiny is definitely a boon as all the deaths before didn't count, but it might give this sense of "i have to leave or stay forever with no in between.

But as mentioned earlier, each case will.be case by case. I am sure if the player asks nicely to hold off the mark for a bit longer for "x" reasons, that the dms will listen to their case. Its not an auto mark at lvl 16

[Ninjimmy]

I think the concern is that it is now an all or nothing commitment. Having mark Of destiny is definitely a boon as all the deaths before didn't count, but it might give this sense of "i have to leave or stay forever with no in between.

But as mentioned earlier, each case will.be case by case. I am sure if the player asks nicely to hold off the mark for a bit longer for "x" reasons, that the dms will listen to their case. Its not an auto mark at lvl 16

I'm assuming it's for the characters who intend to stay on Skal indefinitely, if you do decide to migrate to the mainland it comes off and then gets re-appliied if you move back?

[ReverentBlade]

Skal's never been my cuppa at all, but the paradox confuses me. You discourage high level characters from lingering so that new characters have a chance to shine...but not really because they are also supposed to leave as soon as they do. I don't get the point of an area that -no one- is supposed to get invested in. Seems like dev effort that could be spent just improving the flow of the actual server.

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

I think the concern is that it is now an all or nothing commitment. Having mark Of destiny is definitely a boon as all the deaths before didn't count, but it might give this sense of "i have to leave or stay forever with no in between.

But as mentioned earlier, each case will.be case by case. I am sure if the player asks nicely to hold off the mark for a bit longer for "x" reasons, that the dms will listen to their case. Its not an auto mark at lvl 16

I'm assuming it's for the characters who intend to stay on Skal indefinitely, if you do decide to migrate to the mainland it comes off and then gets re-appliied if you move back?

If that's the case, then it should be made clear to the community. Irongron did say case by case, so I decided to have faith, but various people are taking the implications quite harshly right now.

[AstralUniverse]

To me, as someone who played an Epic character in Skal for a while and could as well be, unconsciously, a part of the very problem that brought us to this policy, I really dont think it's the right solution. Epics (mostly lvl 30) characters pass through Skal all the time. They bring their agenda with them. They come to RP. They come to Trade. They come to find recruits. They come to find Conflict. It's all good. So why someone that chooses Skal as their hub in epic levels should be the casualty of this reality? Upon choosing to stay in Skal I was consciously respecting 2 things: 1) I will be way above the power curve of my surroundings and I should respect that. 2) I should allow my character to die or simply step aside when the time is right and leave Skal. I was even carrying a lot of money on me for no reason, so if someone kills me they get a big cash-in for killing an overleveled 'boss' for the area. (worth mentioning the character wasnt even high epic. was 18-24 90% of his life). Looking back, if at lvl 16 a DM came to me and said "you gotta have MoD now" I'd be pissed off for 5 minutes and then accept it, ultimately leveling slightly faster in Skal in those levels, and probably taking many many months to die 10 times if that'd ever happen.

This policy isnt terrible but it's missing the target a bit imo.

[Reallylongunneededplayername]

MoD for staying past 15 in Skall sounds like a good reason to stay, No?

Chances are you can get less and less xp, So the xp boost will be welcome.

[Aleilsum Ellrum]

Upon choosing to stay in Skal I was consciously respecting 2 things: 1) I will be way above the power curve of my surroundings and I should respect that. 2) I should allow my character to die or simply step aside when the time is right and leave Skal.

You respected that. Others did not. Some high levels have been absolute turds to new chars and new players. DMs have to consider the overall picture.

As an aside, I was probably a 'patron' and I'm sorry if I made new characters' lives boring. Some new players did seem genuinely grateful, partly because the early levels are very difficult if you are new to NWN1 / Arelith, but I can see that maybe it wasn't so much fun for long-established players.