Deathless Masters Touch + Undead

[Apothys]

Hey,

Just wanted to say that being able to heal your minions with your Deathless Mastery and even Undead Graft is great, i love it.

However i saw the Quivering Palm ability of monks had a cool down of 5 minutes and in basic NWN had a 1 use a day.

Deathless Mastery and Undead Graft has a cool down of 10 minutes each and in basic NWN had 3 uses a day each.

If Deathless Mastery/Undead Graft had some sort of reduced cooldown based on Palemaster level progression beyond 10th level that would help a lot for PVE content. As most times when your warded Summons go down and you pop your next group your in real trouble anyway and the second group are not warded as theirs usually a lot of panicking and running around as your fresh undead get smashed.

In comparison a Cleric Necromancer can do exactly the same thing but better, they can pop of a number of Harm spells to save there dead followers and even cast regenerate upon them (Totally jealous of that spell). Even there undead are just the same as a Palemasters, despite standard NWN nights giving Palemasters superior undead.

Honestly i just think it would be a nice incentive to go beyond your usual 10 or even rarer 16 levels of Pale master and currently there is very little reason to ascend to the full power of a Pale master beyond these given levels. Im not complaining, just pointing out some glaring differences in power with a full fledged pale master and any cleric with ESF: Necromancy.

What do people think?

[Shrouded Wanderer]

As a PM player I'm in agreement.

The DC of deathless masters is the same as wail except single target and touch attack. Its far less reliable than any other death spell because usually your touch attack is not great.

I get why the long cool down, but its far less useful in a pvp scenario than quivering palm.

[Zaphiel]

Palemaster is a caster class, has access to various spells on high dcs, have crit./sneak immunity, gets ac bonus. It is quite reasonable to have high cooldown on their abilities since they already have a lot of tricks in their spellbook.

Undead Graft is not that useful in pvp that is true but you can heal your summon / edk with it. 10 minute cooldown is long but like I said, they have spellbook.

Deathless Master's Touch can reach around 40-41DC and it is a death spell also it heals your summon / edk for d10 + 160 (considering 16 pm), also can act like Control Undead spell. 10 minute cooldown is reasonable.

Note that Monk Quivering Palm is totally useless in epic level PvP since target has to be low level than monk. I don't think comparing pm feats with Quivering Palm cooldown is reasonable.

[Scurvy Cur]

Note that Monk Quivering Palm is totally useless in epic level PvP since target has to be low level than monk. I don't think comparing pm feats with Quivering Palm cooldown is reasonable.

This is probably the most important point. Once everyone is level 30, qpalm is a complete nonfactor outside pve, whereas deathless master touch will remain relevant throughout.

[Apothys]

Palemaster is a caster class, has access to various spells on high dcs, have crit./sneak immunity, gets ac bonus. It is quite reasonable to have high cooldown on their abilities since they already have a lot of tricks in their spellbook.

Undead Graft is not that useful in pvp that is true but you can heal your summon / edk with it. 10 minute cooldown is long but like I said, they have spellbook.

Deathless Master's Touch can reach around 40-41DC and it is a death spell also it heals your summon / edk for d10 + 160 (considering 16 pm), also can act like Control Undead spell. 10 minute cooldown is reasonable.

Note that Monk Quivering Palm is totally useless in epic level PvP since target has to be low level than monk. I don't think comparing pm feats with Quivering Palm cooldown is reasonable.

Im not talking about Palemasters other abilities as im not talking about Monks other abilities. Also i believe this would have no real impact on PvP, a reduced timer would not affect that in any way. Im merely saying from someone who plays a high level Palemaster ive found the ability concept excellent, but sorely lacking when compared to the abilities of a plain cleric, who are better at handling and healing the dead than a Palemaster in every way. I dont think discussing the idea of high level PMs getting a reduced timer is wrong is it?

[Zaphiel]

discussing the idea of high level PMs getting a reduced timer is wrong is it?

Of course it is not. I mostly made my answer against Shrouded Wanderer's point.