New Languages

[SkipiusEsq]

This is a combo feedback and question:

Feedback - Love it! I really enjoy learning languages so the more the merrier.

Question - Furbolgs are "fey" but they did not get Sylvan. Is this intentional?

[Irongron]

This is a combo feedback and question:

Feedback - Love it! I really enjoy learning languages so the more the merrier.

Question - Furbolgs are "fey" but they did not get Sylvan. Is this intentional?

I would really consider them giantkin with Fey blood. They should receive Jotun only.

[Itikar]

Wiki now says firbolgs get Elven?!

[Irongron]

Wiki now says firbolgs get Elven?!

I have no idea how that one happened. Will fix.

[Glowing Mushroom]

I really love the new Druidic language, thank you for this. What a cool addition!

I was thinking maybe the color could be changed to a bright green, or a richer brown? It could look more nature-y that way.

Brown in RGB as 139,69,19.

Or Green in RGB as 0, 256, 0.

Richer colors always look nice when they pop is all. Just a thought! I absolutely love this.

[Aardra]

Still naught for our poor, oblivious shamans. :<

[JubJub]

I think languages would quickly get out of hand if classes having their own language became common. I'm glad animal language is still a thing to help limit the shifted caster having to speak common. Even a shifted druid, always seemed odd to see a panther walk up and speak common to you.

[Red Ropes]

Wiki now says firbolgs get Elven?!

I have no idea how that one happened. Will fix.

I believe it was updated because in PnP they get it as a bonus language. It was a few months ago when pixies got the same for the same reason. Firbolgs even worship elven gods from time to time because they have similar ideas about the world.

See here.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25&start=475#p225279

[Irongron]

Wiki now says firbolgs get Elven?!

I have no idea how that one happened. Will fix.

I believe it was updated because in PnP they get it as a bonus language. It was a few months ago when pixies got the same for the same reason. Firbolgs even worship elven gods from time to time because they have similar ideas about the world.

See here.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25&start=475#p225279

My mistake then, we can let it stand.

[Skibbles]

Followup question: are these new languages 'secret' or will they have translations books being added to the matrix?

[aergnist]

Followup question: are these new languages 'secret' or will they have translations books being added to the matrix?

Druidic should be considered as secret as it can be. By the lore it is never taught to non-druids, and any druid found teaching it to an outsider would lose access to even taking druid levels, in addition to the treasonous druid as well as the potential learner of druidic being hunted down. I'd imagine if knowledge of how druidic works became known outside of their circles they'd ideally just change it, since it's almost treated more like war cryptography than any conventional language, and exists solely for the purpose of secrecy.

Gnoll and Sylvan will get phrasebooks.

[Jagel]

Will loremasters be able to select druidic as one of the “unteachable” languages?

[Eira]

Likewise, for Roushoum, it wouldn't seem to make much sense if a dead language just had some books floating around.

Is it possible to make certain languages harder to understand than others in the lore/fluency translate system? Or even straight-up impossible to translate?

I could imagine a druid with animal language might be able to understand some gnoll, but I've seen too much of:

Druid-turned-wolf: "''' ''' '''''''''' ''' ''''''''''''''''''' ''' ' "'"

Random adventurer with no animal experience whatsoever and a lucky roll: "That's a very good philosophical point, Fluffernutter, I'm glad you brought that up."

If druidic was such a well-kept secret, then it might be problematic for druids to be speaking it, and someone overhearing happens to respond, then how do you roleplay "oh I have a 1% chance of understanding it, I promise I don't have a traitor druid giving me lessons"?

I also have some notion in my memory that Roushoum had some sort of magical backlash from non-imaskari trying to read or write it, but so far my internet searching is coming up blank, so I'm wondering if this is an actual thing or I'm just delusional.

[Nitro]

This is a combo feedback and question:

Feedback - Love it! I really enjoy learning languages so the more the merrier.

Question - Furbolgs are "fey" but they did not get Sylvan. Is this intentional?

I would really consider them giantkin with Fey blood. They should receive Jotun only.

Wouldn't it make sense to have them show up as racial type "giant" instead of "fey" on examine then?

[Itikar]

Likewise, for Roushoum, it wouldn't seem to make much sense if a dead language just had some books floating around.

Well, it actually would. I don't remember from the Forgotten Realm campaign setting any particular restrictions on Roushoum being learned by other characters. I think the main issue here is its very limited usefulness.

But overall if it can be learned without any extraordinary ability, it makes sense that any Deep Imaskari could probably teach it or write a book to teach it, now that Deep Imaskar has been unsealed.

It might even open good rp opportunities, for instance having a Deep Imaskari wizard using it as secret language for their apprentices or slaves.

I just don't see any single one of my characters bothering to waste time or a language slot to learn the thing without a very compelling rp reason that I don't see happening. There are just way too many other languages that are more useful than Roushoum.

[Red Ropes]

Druidic in the realms is actually descended from a "waelan" language; thus likely has some means of understanding a word here and there. Also you could normally cast "comprehend languages" which would cover it.

You just are never going to find a teacher who would tell you its esoteric nature, deeper occult meanings and so forth.

The language is filled with terms / knowledged directly from Silvanus and Chauntea (and its also why the class does not exist outside of Faerun. Druids were "invented" by Silvanus and Chauntea in the ancient times and all druidic rites begin with their followings.)

in other words

As to things like Roushoum - I am not sure what its plans are but in the "current perception of things" there are probably Imaskari dictionaries that have tiny stunted vocabularies and stuff in the realms still born of archealogical or historical research but nothing mainstream enough. Enough that some proud, big brained lorechad could learn some words and potentially understand a sentence.

Or how a Loremaster might come to be intimate with either language. (...and remember in RP both groups will have every reason to revile such a character with extreme prejudice. Flaunt your knowledge with extreme caution.)

[Wrips]

Roushoum has a lot of contemporary, descendent languages that can be studied by a scholar - even if they don't share the imaskari alphabet. I think it's fairly valid to assume that a particularly talented scholar can learn how to speak and understand a few words (or a lot of words!) of the ancient language based on the contemporary ones.

Obviously, to be fully literate on Roushoum, it's necessary to learn the imaskari alphabet, which can be taught by a Deep Imaskari (and which Andunor is a hub for)

My suggestion would be to make Roushoum phrasebooks craftable by Imaskari PCs and probably make the learning progress slower than other languages but I see no reason why it shouldn't be accessible to other races, as long as there's someone to teach it. (But then, I also don't see the point on why drow sign language and thives cant can't be learned, either)

[White_935]

Roushoum has a lot of contemporary, descendent languages that can be studied by a scholar - even if they don't share the imaskari alphabet. I think it's fairly valid to assume that a particularly talented scholar can learn how to speak and understand a few words (or a lot of words!) of the ancient language based on the contemporary ones.

Obviously, to be fully literate on Roushoum, it's necessary to learn the imaskari alphabet, which can be taught by a Deep Imaskari (and which Andunor is a hub for)

My suggestion would be to make Roushoum phrasebooks craftable by Imaskari PCs and probably make the learning progress slower than other languages but I see no reason why it shouldn't be accessible to other races, as long as there's someone to teach it. (But then, I also don't see the point on why drow sign language and thives cant can't be learned, either)

A reason thieves cant cannot be learned, is because its in fact not a language, thou i suppose you could call it a hidden language it generally consisted more of slangs and innuendos more than an actual language. The main use of thieves' cant is to communicate rogue activities, such as banditry, burglary, finding marks, and discussing loot.

More often than not it's a way for a small group to talk in code, they could be talking about the weather, but in fact discussing and bartering about fenced goods. It's likely that each region would have its own variant but i guess DND did not wish to make x1000 versions of it. I would remain impractical to "learn it" thou with the right association you might been included into learning the local variant (based on connection, and who you are).

Drow sign language i believe is more of a stable language with predefined words so that would be a maybe? but the drow would be unlikely to teach it to anyone.

As for Theives cant, someone made a nice demonstration of how they'd use it

Thieves Cant is more than just verbal. It can also consist of hand signals and body language, or the use of props. Two thieves could have a perfectly normal conversation over a cup of tea, with no code or incriminating language being spoken:

Two teabags (Bank robbery)

The angle of the teacup handle (3 o'clock tomorrow)

How many sugars they used (There's 3 in our crew)

What hand they stirred with (It's an inside job; guards shouldn't be any trouble)

The direction of the stir (Bring a murder piece, in case I'm wrong)

How many rotations (your cut is 3x5 = 15k)

Clinking the spoon after stirring (Alright... I'm in)

Placement of the spoon (meet me behind the pub at sunset to work out the details)

They then both get up and walk away, without even having a sip.

[Kuma]

Roushoum has a lot of contemporary, descendent languages that can be studied by a scholar - even if they don't share the imaskari alphabet. I think it's fairly valid to assume that a particularly talented scholar can learn how to speak and understand a few words (or a lot of words!) of the ancient language based on the contemporary ones.

represented by lore giving you a small chance to understrand it, occasionally

My suggestion would be to make Roushoum phrasebooks craftable by Imaskari PCs and probably make the learning progress slower than other languages but I see no reason why it shouldn't be accessible to other races, as long as there's someone to teach it. (But then, I also don't see the point on why drow sign language and thives cant can't be learned, either)

or be a loremaster - which really, seems to make more sense.

[Gouge Away]

One could argue that every language but animal* is acquired by learning.. A thief isn't born knowing Cant and has to be taught, there's not really any in-game reason why an outsider couldn't be taught as well if someone who knew it wanted to share.

However if the devs don't want certain languages to be teachable mechanically that's 100% cool with me. I'm glad we're getting to a place where language can actually be a way to have a somewhat more secure conversation instead of assuming everyone knowing everything and language just being used for flavor.

* animal being closer to a magical power than language, IMO, but that's a whole different argument

[White_935]

One could argue that every language but animal* is acquired by learning.. A thief isn't born knowing Cant and has to be taught, there's not really any in-game reason why an outsider couldn't be taught as well if someone who knew it wanted to share.

However if the devs don't want certain languages to be teachable mechanically that's 100% cool with me. I'm glad we're getting to a place where language can actually be a way to have a somewhat more secure conversation instead of assuming everyone knowing everything and language just being used for flavor.

* animal being closer to a magical power than language, IMO, but that's a whole different argument

You're correct, Realistically it is a special coded language. You can learn it, but you can't learn it by yourself. You'd need a teacher. You can find people to teach you Elven quite easily. For thieves cant you need to have underground connections. You would have to gain the trust of someone who knows thieves cant and have a history/reputation.

Still this is quite mechanical difficult to add in, in fact not all rogues would know it (since not all rogues are criminal/thieves etc) but would instead be a local variant taught to those connected to the right set of individuals needless of class, and perhaps a rare individual who somehow convinced someone to teach them (would be stamped as a threat by the local thieves guild).

But it would realistically be learned by several classes... perhaps learning it should've been mechanically attached to a thieves guild if such a faction is ever implemented similar to Harper/zhent/assassin/radiant heart factions.

[Wrips]

represented by lore giving you a small chance to understrand it, occasionally

My point being the greatest impediment to learning Roushoum is the imaskari alphabet and not the phonetics of the language.

or be a loremaster - which really, seems to make more sense.

A loremaster may or may not know Roushoum (the likelihood is that they don't), an imaskari 100% does. If you want to throw it as a mechanical bone to loremasters, it's fair I guess, but it certainly doesn't make more sense.

[Kuma]

A loremaster may or may not know Roushoum (the likelihood is that they don't), an imaskari 100% does. If you want to throw it as a mechanical bone to loremasters, it's fair I guess, but it certainly doesn't make more sense.

loremasters can choose to learn any language at certain levels. that's what i meant.