Rogues v. Pixies and why Rogues need some love

[Party in the forest at midnight]

That's how I feel. Rather than take things away from other classes, I'd rather see content made for rogues. Maybe more than just more locked doors, too. Add secret paths where the door only appears if you have enough search. There are a lot of dungeons with traps that cannot be disabled, enable them to be disabled by characters with disable trap.

[Drogo Gyslain]

That's how I feel. Rather than take things away from other classes, I'd rather see content made for rogues. Maybe more than just more locked doors, too. Add secret paths where the door only appears if you have enough search. There are a lot of dungeons with traps that cannot be disabled, enable them to be disabled by characters with disable trap.

This was the intent of my initial post. Provide more Doors with DCs instead of only a key that cannot be found 1/2 the time or just levers. Give Traps DCs that are beatable, or more spread out so that you can utilize the craft. God I love the secret doors that are available, but can we expand that to existing dungeons, maybe new secret passageways that shorten dungeons or back doors that are unlockable.

Let pickpockets actually pick things like keys or give NPCs items other than gold that are steal able like gems or hell, Beer bottles and food.

Things along those lines that would just expand the idea further.

[-XXX-]

Asking to increase the lock DCs so that the pixie can't open it is essentially the original suggestion, just approached from another angle.

Here's another food for thought:
Pure rogues are lackluster... by design, and rightfully so. We have almost two decades of evidence that any attempts to makes rogues any better only incentivizes splash multiclassing into skilldumping in REAL character builds. Unfortunately, the real debate here revolves around which one of the optimal builds gets to have an advantage in utility over the other ones (that would also somewhat imply that builds with over 3 rogue class levels are essentially excluded from the discussion altogether).

Besides, how does a rogue sneaking through a dungeon on their own to access a rogue-exclusive content contribute to general RP in any way?

[Ork]

Hilarious that people think rogues are bad. Probably one of the best classes on this server right now- splashed, hybrid or semi-full.

[Drogo Gyslain]

Hilarious that people think rogues are bad. Probably one of the best classes on this server right now- splashed, hybrid or semi-full.

I cannot stress this enough, Ork, you and everyone who keep saying 'rogue isn't bad' are not listening to the critique and feedback given.

Noone has said Rogue is bad, but Putting aside PVP there are many more RP things that a rogue should do, that don't get the opportunity or chance to right now instead relying on a mechanical fallback or cheapening skills to the point where it's a meme.

All this thread was asking for, was to invest in the possibility of adding utility to rogues outside of PVP. Not everything is PVP and that's what I wish was highlighted more. Instead of having 100 locked doors with keys, give us DCs to fight. Give us things to do with the skills we have aside from just unlocking chests or undoing traps.

Hell, let us lock fixtures and set locks to the DC of the PC that locked the fixture to the ground (currently I think it just defaults to DC=1)

Instead of having 'junk skillpoints' because there is alot we could do RP wise using the mechanics than we would have to rely on narrative declarations and such with, and make it a more immersive experience for all.

Because no, a pixy should not be able to unlock a runic chest. But an experienced Lockpicker should.

Because it promotes group diversity and inclusion of the class, outside of its PVP prowess.

[Ork]

Plenty of utility outside of PvP. That's what I'm trying to communicate. You're struggling to find roguey content? You're just not looking hard enough. Also, those doors are locked mostly because, again as I mentioned, there's nothing behind them.

[Gouge Away]

The thing is nobody is ever going to say "we don't need a rogue, we have a pixie" and make the rogue stay home UNLESS they didn't want that rogue along in the first place. Be an interesting and entertaining character and you can geek out on your rogue skills all you want and other players will support it and keep the pixie hidden away.

Making it so a rogue is mandatory on the other hand is a bad precedent. No class or role is mandatory in any group. You can get by without a healer, a "tank", whatever... Rogues shouldn't be different, they should just be good at their job. This frankly isn't a server where you CAN find someone to fill a certain role because we're so divided by settlement/faction/time zone/race/level spread. If a 3-drow party wanted to go to the lowerdark on a Tuesday at 11pm but needed a rogue to do it they may just not be able to go. At least now it's likely one will have some ability via pixie or gear to handle what a dedicated rogue would have.

[Nitro]

Because it promotes group diversity and inclusion of the class, outside of its PVP prowess.

I still don't get why a rogue is group diversity while a wizard isn't.

Also, there's a bunch of foig places that are behind locked doors in nondungeon areas that need keys that can only be pickpocketed from NPC's or unlocked with open lock.

[Baseili]

You're trying to rationale against convenience, that is the simple reason for the disparity you see. There is no other reason for the pixie to be a pocket rogue, it could readily be as useless as the rest of the lineup but it is kept that way for pure convenience. Same way for cross classing open lock, or disarm trap or UMD.

Heres a thought, how about a bit of turnabout and have pixies require a charge of thieves tools to open locks? Remove them from smithing, add them to the -rogue command and let that be the rogue equivalent of selling wands.