Suggestion to fix e-dodge bypass exploit

[Anomandaris]

I’m glad I’m not playing a dex pc rn. The amount of salt towards the attribute is out of control. At this point I’m kind of expecting an over correction. Multiple Str builds have gotten buffs already, dex gear has been nerfed and SD/HIPS has been gutted. Maybe monks should lose epic dodge, but seriously just let the changes settle a bit. I see tons of str builds around the server doing just fine. I’m not sure the “dex meta,” is as bad as you think it is. We’re so focused on what other people are doing and how unfair it is rather than just playing “our” game.

[kinginyellow]

While I'm perfectly on board with the Edodge removal, it almost feels like I had to start playing a monk for the class to get changed.

Played Warlock: Item +ab attributes to EB gets changed.

Played SD: Hips gets removed, SD to be reworked

Play Monk: Incoming monk nerfs.

I swear anything I play gets changed like a month or two after. Does anyone have a class they want nerfed? Just let me play it and a nerf will be on the works.

[Nitro]

While I'm perfectly on board with the Edodge removal, it almost feels like I had to start playing a monk for the class to get changed.

Played Warlock: Item +ab attributes to EB gets changed.

Played SD: Hips gets removed, SD to be reworked

Play Monk: Incoming monk nerfs.

I swear anything I play gets changed like a month or two after. Does anyone have a class they want nerfed? Just let me play it and a nerf will be on the works.

Yeah, if you could hit up mono-druids that'd be swell.

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

For what it’s worth, this thread reads a lot more like...

“Hey guys, this is the trick to beating e-dodge” than it does “let’s fix thing breaking e-dodge, here’s a ludicrous suggestion to wildly increase the power of an already incredible feat”.

I think we were trolled.

I wasn't trolling but I must come clean and admit I was motivated mainly by wanting to demonstrate that these changes are made not to fix exploits but primarily to balance PvP. Contrast the sentiment in this thread with the thread on the HiPs nerf. The engine limitation inherent in HiPs is derided as an "exploit" that requires fixing by entire disablement of the feat.

Knockdown and called shot effectively bypassing e-dodge is clearly a problem with the engine and the way the interaction is coded. Using those feats in knowledge of the engine limitation against an e-dodger in PVP as a means of "burning" the e-dodge is no less an exploit in my opinion than the much rarer low stealth HiPser who used HipS soley to flatfoot when they had no ability to make the hide check. Now the balance discussion around e-dodge (which this thread has of course become) should really be a separate issue to fixing bugs and exploits, but understandably the two are intrinsically linked.

For what it's worth, as one of the voices in favor of the change to HiPS, I agree with you that if someone suddenly spams KDs at you when they realize you have E-dodge, that such behavior is exploiting the engine. I'd suggest that you bring something like this up with Symphony in a DM or possibly through PM here, at some point, as he can speak to the correct ears about such a thing that are most likely to get it fixed. (To be fair, I think I remember something about a thread on the beamdog forums that he already maintains, if you're not comfortable approaching him directly.)

The reason I'd suggest that, is much like with HiPS, how do you police that? And your follow-up, if I may be presumptuous, would most likely, correctly, be "why do they get different treatment?"

Purely on paper, I'd be inclined to agree. In actual application, a HiPS user can flat-foot anyone, at any time, by pressing F1. It doesn't work against one specific niche of an epic character caste. One is more disruptive than the other, simply by ease of target access.

[AstralUniverse]

While I'm perfectly on board with the Edodge removal, it almost feels like I had to start playing a monk for the class to get changed.

Played Warlock: Item +ab attributes to EB gets changed.

Played SD: Hips gets removed, SD to be reworked

Play Monk: Incoming monk nerfs.

I swear anything I play gets changed like a month or two after. Does anyone have a class they want nerfed? Just let me play it and a nerf will be on the works.

I can relate. I played a different lvl 30 monk build every time the class got reworked in the past 3 years. And I think I'm done with it for now so /please/ take over, thanks. I also played a con lock when the championship darts were (finally) removed from their blast. I'd say it's safe to play swashbucklers outside of e-dodge builds. Hexblade is not gonna get nerfed anytime soon too.

... Also yeah, we really want Monolith druids nerfed. I personally want wild mages nerfed too so if you could play those as well pretty please.

[Anomandaris]

Play a str character. There seems to a bias towards thinking they are weak despite all the barb or COT WMs (and other builds) out there doing very, very well. Mid to high 50s ab and crits than can basically one shot most non-tank builds. Terry/thund/mighty rage with great DCs and health pools from 800-1k. Should be safe running these, they are #balanced if not weak and in need of help.

AB, HP and damage can get so high on these builds that frankly if you’re running the typical low AB (42-43) high APR and AC dex builds, you’re gonna just die without e-dodge and concealment or brilliant corner sneaking. And you’ll probably get tstrike critted into the next zip code regardless. If we start nerfing AC we better start reigning in AB and dmg numbers or the “dex meta” will quickly become a Str superstate and we will be paying homage to our barbarian overlords.

That said, the deep monk investment with e-dodge is a little spooky given it has strong dmg now. But it doesn’t really matter there’s ways to kill if.