Weapon Feedback

[msterswrdsmn]

I know its been a bit since I've been on Arelith, but I go through the Wiki and updates every now and then to try to keep up with things. A few of the weapons stuck out as...well. Not as useful? I never saw them around when I played, and I can't imagine things got better in the last 5 months or so.

So! Some ideas to make the following weapons more usable. Or at least, have their own niche roles.

Clubs - Make them finessable
Longswords and scimitars are finessable, so why not? Maces and light hammers are as well, which are used in a very similar manner. Real-life club-like weapons like batons or arnis can be very easily used in a finessable manner. I've seen one, ONE person seriously use a club on Arelith. Ever. Rest in peace, Fur Cough.

Sickle - Make it a monk weapon
Kama's are sickles. Literally. "Kama" is japanese for "Sickle".

Sai - AC bonus vs slashing
Sai's in real life were designed specifically counter swords and other slashing weapons. The free whip-disarm would be fitting, but sadly, sai's are tiny weapons so attempting to use disarm would be suicide. AC vs slashing mechanically makes more sense. As of right now, they're really monk weapons that have a worse base damage than level 1 monk fists.

Whips - Two ideas
Either make them dual-wieldable, or make them medium-sized to better take advantage of their innate disarm ability.

Battleaxe: Add Extra damage - Bludgeoning
Axes are very top-heavy and even without a good edge on it, an axe-head has a considerable amount of weight behind it, making it able to deal heavy blunt damage.

Ideas? Thoughts? Additional suggestions?

[Hazard]

Scimitars are finessable!?

[Itikar]

Scimitars and longswords were made finessable some time ago.

Very in favor of finessable clubs, or make clubs small at least, so they are finessable. But no seriously, it's a little weird that club is not finessable.

As for dual wielding whips, I recall that in the early days of NWN it just took changing a small entry in the 2da file to make them dual wieldable in the base game, and I doubt things have changed much. I also know of another very popular server (Ravenloft) that has whips that can be dual wielded. The only issue I can possibly see is whether off-hand whip has proper animations, but it tends to move with the main hand animation anyway, from what I remember.

I am more lukewarm about the rest of the proposals, but not necessarily critical either.

[a shrouded figure]

I have a concern with finesse clubs, this could have some balance implications.

[msterswrdsmn]

I'm actually curious; what kind of balance implications could finessable clubs have? Mechanically, they have the same base damage as scimitars and maces, though they're inferior to both being medium sized and non-finessable with a crit range of 20

[Ordo.Lupus]

The argument for battle-axe getting 'blunt' damage would also apply to most swords then as they should be both slash and pierce.

A club being finessable I disagree with. You might be able to twirl a stick but a stick isn't a club. If a club (which is a top heavy weapon) should be finessable then same logic also applies to axe and hammers.

To some degree I like your idea with a sai giving AC vs slash since it's design actually supports this kind of usage (not like the wakazashi). It is basicly just a specialized parry dagger which you also see in western culture.

I still find it strange that longsword, katana and scimitars are finessable as neither of those weapons are nimble or used in such a manner.

[magistrasa]

Aren't maces finessable or am I dreaming that up?

[Diegovog]

I wouldn't make sickle a monk weapon for the sole reason that there is a really good one (+3enchantment bonus and +2wis?) that you can rune. Ends up being a +3enchantment/keen/+2wis If you dual wield it's a +4wis bonus just from weapons. And considering the nerf in monk's gear stats that would be an oversight.

I'd even advocate to limit it as a druid weapon, allowing devs to buff druids through it if they feel like it.

[TooManyPotatoes]

I'm actually curious; what kind of balance implications could finessable clubs have? Mechanically, they have the same base damage as scimitars and maces, though they're inferior to both being medium sized and non-finessable with a crit range of 20

Club does benefit from monk ubab extra attacks which is a concern if you buff it.

[msterswrdsmn]

I forgot about that. They should be okay, though. They can't be dual wielded (effectively as they're medium weapons), unlike kamas, which are mechanically identical minus the weapon size (1d6 damage with x2 crits and 20 range).

[a shrouded figure]

Fighter + Swashbuckler + Monk + Wild Dwarf

7 attacks, 59 damage non crit
53/53/50/47/44/41/38

48 AC

530 HP
Third Intention
Lowers Str on hit
Lowers Con on hit

... that’s just what I’ve come up with very quickly considering the idea of a medium, finessable, UBAB weapon

[Baron Saturday]

Fighter + Swashbuckler + Monk + Wild Dwarf

7 attacks, 59 damage non crit
53/53/50/47/44/41/38

48 AC

530 HP
Third Intention
Lowers Str on hit
Lowers Con on hit

... that’s just what I’ve come up with very quickly considering the idea of a medium, finessable, UBAB weapon

I may be missing something, but can't that build already be accomplished with a kama?

[Opustus]

Great ideas! Out of the two whip ideas the medium sizeness for better use of disarm is neato.

[TooManyPotatoes]

Fighter + Swashbuckler + Monk + Wild Dwarf

7 attacks, 59 damage non crit
53/53/50/47/44/41/38

48 AC

530 HP
Third Intention
Lowers Str on hit
Lowers Con on hit

... that’s just what I’ve come up with very quickly considering the idea of a medium, finessable, UBAB weapon

I may be missing something, but can't that build already be accomplished with a kama?

Can't get all the twohand benefits from a kama due to its size.

[LovelyLightningWitch]

The argument for battle-axe getting 'blunt' damage would also apply to most swords then as they should be both slash and pierce.

A club being finessable I disagree with. You might be able to twirl a stick but a stick isn't a club. If a club (which is a top heavy weapon) should be finessable then same logic also applies to axe and hammers.

To some degree I like your idea with a sai giving AC vs slash since it's design actually supports this kind of usage (not like the wakazashi). It is basicly just a specialized parry dagger which you also see in western culture.

I still find it strange that longsword, katana and scimitars are finessable as neither of those weapons are nimble or used in such a manner.

Longswords, be it italian or german tradition - are incredibly nimble weapons. Meyer's manual on longswords alone shows using longswords in a highly finesse-remindong ways.

Scimitars depends on what weapon they are supposed to represent. Hungarian szablya, polish saber? No finesse there, way too front heavy. French or english infantry saber? Very finesseable.

[a shrouded figure]

Two things this server doesn’t need:

Medium Finesse UBAB
Medium Finesse 3x Crit


I’m generally a proponent of /slowing/ down pvp and more burst options are just a hinderance.

[garrbear758]

Two things this server doesn’t need:

Medium Finesse UBAB
Medium Finesse 3x Crit


I’m generally a proponent of /slowing/ down pvp and more burst options are just a hinderance.

While I do agree with you on those two weapons being excessive, slowing down pvp too much will be a huuuge benefit to windup builds.

[Quidix]

If it wasn't for the fact that Rapier and Scimitar were already finesseable, I'd have some sympathy for the criticism.

[Tyrantos]

Perhaps not really applicable here, but I would love if it was possible for Hobgoblins to get a racial weapon, much like the other races does- As its now been made into a Core-race. I belive that either a Longsword, or a Handaxe would be the most appropriate as its the favoured weapon of their patron deity, Nomog-geaya.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Nomog-Geaya

[Good Character]

It would be too strong to provide hobgoblins a racial weapon. The point of racial weapons was/is to provide races that naturally fall behind humans a needed bump to stay relevant.

[Opustus]

It's also flavour and lore, letting people play the dwarves, drow, elves, so on, that they want to. Not that balance isn't important but lore, style, conceptual flavour are also important.

[Tyrantos]

It would be too strong to provide hobgoblins a racial weapon. The point of racial weapons was/is to provide races that naturally fall behind humans a needed bump to stay relevant.

Just make it useable with 30 UMD like they did with lesser moonblade! And Im not suggesting it has to be powerful. I just want a cool, thematic weapon for Hobgoblins.

[Good Character]

It would be too strong to provide hobgoblins a racial weapon. The point of racial weapons was/is to provide races that naturally fall behind humans a needed bump to stay relevant.

Just make it useable with 30 UMD like they did with lesser moonblade! And Im not suggesting it has to be powerful. I just want a cool, thematic weapon for Hobgoblins.

It's not the issue that other races would use it (though I'm sure they would) but that hobgoblins, arguably top 3 for races, would be too strong with them if they're in line with other racial weapons.

I agree, though. I wish all races got something. Even if some were weaker than say masterly damask.

[Tyrantos]

There is also Duergear racial items, as well as Orog items. And I would argue that both those races are stronger than Hobgoblin.

[Hazard]

Gonne weaponmaster how. when.