Description of Bug Experienced: Not getting the bonuses from choosing the Necromancy specialization on a Wizard/Palemaster. My UCL isn't increased by 2, nor are my summons given double stats from my Greater Spell Focus feat.
Steps to reproduce the Bug:
Create a Wizard and choose the Necromancy specialization
Multiclass into Palemaster, obtaining Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy while leveling up
Summon undead
Don't profit
Expected Result:At level 7 with a UCL of 9 (7 + passive 2 from Specialization) using Summon Undead should summon three Zombie Warriors with increased stats from doubling my Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy bonus.
Actual Result: At level 7 I have a UCL of 7, the +2 from my specialization not present, and using Summon Undead summons three Tyrantfog Zombies without the increased stats that I'd get from doubling my Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy bonus.
Screenshot(s)
Additional Information/Notes: To test the summon stats I made a Necromany Specialist Wizard/PM and a Generalist Wizard/PM on the PGCC to confirm my theory. At the same levels with the same feats, the undead had the same summon tiers and the same stats. I tested this in the combat log as well as character sheets tend to lie.
The GrumpyCat wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:48 am
Perhaps the takeaway is not to go 'Ugh. Lesbians... we should cull them.'
This doesn't sound like a bug to me. Necromancy specialization only affects spells from the Wizard spellbook, not the PM Undead summoning abilities. Also PM levels currently do not count towards specialization bonuses that are tied to a particular wizard level.
Kalopsia wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:55 pm
This doesn't sound like a bug to me. Necromancy specialization only affects spells from the Wizard spellbook, not the PM Undead summoning abilities. Also PM levels currently do not count towards specialization bonuses that are tied to a particular wizard level.
Oh dang, it didn't occur to me that it wouldn't affect PM summoning abilities. I knew PM didn't count towards the specialization bonuses though. Hmm, alright! Thanks for clarifying. Bummer.
The GrumpyCat wrote: Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:48 am
Perhaps the takeaway is not to go 'Ugh. Lesbians... we should cull them.'
I don't understand how this can be working as intended when other specializations don't seem to work that way. For example, if you make a Wizard/Druid and pick Conjuration Specialization, you get the summon tier increase with Druid spells and if you pick Transmutation Specialization you get maximized Animal spells with Druid spells.
Coolguy McMagic wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:09 am
I don't understand how this can be working as intended when other specializations don't seem to work that way. For example, if you make a Wizard/Druid and pick Conjuration Specialization, you get the summon tier increase with Druid spells and if you pick Transmutation Specialization you get maximized Animal spells with Druid spells.
What you are referring to are Spells, PM´s Summons aren´t cast from the Spellbook but are Abilities. As such the bonuses do not affect them. There is a distinction between Spells cast from the Spellbook and 'Spell-like' Abilities.
Coolguy McMagic wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:09 am
I don't understand how this can be working as intended when other specializations don't seem to work that way. For example, if you make a Wizard/Druid and pick Conjuration Specialization, you get the summon tier increase with Druid spells and if you pick Transmutation Specialization you get maximized Animal spells with Druid spells.
The examples you're mentioning are technically unintended interactions. Specialist bonuses are only meant to only affect spells cast via the wizard spellbook. If they currently do not, those are the things that need to be fixed.
Specialist bonuses are balanced with the trade-off of losing access to a spell school in mind. Losing access to a wizard spell school is no sacrifice for a Druid if he only invested three levels into Wizard.
Coolguy McMagic wrote: Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:09 am
I don't understand how this can be working as intended when other specializations don't seem to work that way. For example, if you make a Wizard/Druid and pick Conjuration Specialization, you get the summon tier increase with Druid spells and if you pick Transmutation Specialization you get maximized Animal spells with Druid spells.
The reason other specializations have synergy with other class's spellbook is because it's a spellbook. Intended or not, this stuff currently affects spellbooks, same way you pick Animal Domain in a cleric dip as a sorcerer and it improves your summons on your sorcerer spellbook. The thing with PM summons - these arent spells, they are feats - they are not tied to any spellbook.
KriegEternal wrote:
Their really missing mords and some minor flavor things.
AstralUniverse wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:05 pm
The reason other specializations have synergy with other class's spellbook is because it's a spellbook. Intended or not, this stuff currently affects spellbooks, same way you pick Animal Domain in a cleric dip as a sorcerer and it improves your summons on your sorcerer spellbook. The thing with PM summons - these arent spells, they are feats - they are not tied to any spellbook.
That's a mechanical explanation of why it currently is not working, but it does not explain why it should not be working.
Kalopsia wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:13 am
The examples you're mentioning are technically unintended interactions. Specialist bonuses are only meant to only affect spells cast via the wizard spellbook. If they currently do not, those are the things that need to be fixed.
Specialist bonuses are balanced with the trade-off of losing access to a spell school in mind. Losing access to a wizard spell school is no sacrifice for a Druid if he only invested three levels into Wizard.
Yes, I get that. But a Pale Master, being an Arcane Caster, IS losing something meaningful when picking a specialization. I mean, just think about this logically and in terms of the RP this encourages: as it works right now, Necromancy specialization is actually the worst option you could take as a Pale Master, since none of its bonuses do anything. I don't understand how this can be intended.
It is intended because a specialist necromancer wizard is one thing, a pale master is something else entirely. They wanted to enable the former to be a viable choice over generalist wizards without making pale masters extremely powerful so abilities are gated to high wizard levels. Likewise transmutation was blocked to prevent uber powerful Tensers using pale masters. It was a dev choice and I wouldn’t expect it to change.
I don't know if getting these additional bonuses to your Summons is too overpowered. But it is incredibly unintuitive. I think at least Epic Mummy Dust from PM should get the bonuses from the Necromancy Specialization, since both are gained as a feat and neither are part of the Wizard Spellbook.
