Representation of Orcs Inquiry

[Huschpfusch]

[Nota bene: This should probably go in the suggestions, but that's locked as of now and I feel this' rather a hot topic because anything affecting WotC is sooner than later going to trickle down into the larger hobby.]

In light of WotC's changed approach to representing archaic peoples
as well as recent Arelith forums posts touching upon greenskins and the topic of genocide
I suggest running a cultural-consultant style investigation of the staff into the representation of orcs in the Arelith setting with regards to US-American racial stereotyping traditions.

And IF this investgation should return:
Arelith setting currently perpetuates racial stereotyping of archaic peoples = TRUE
I suggest to DO:
adjusting and adding game content based on up to date findings of the archeological/historical/ethnological departments.

[Curve]

As someone who is very much in favor of what is at the heart of most social justice movements I will say that for me this is a hard no. I’m not saying there is no time to search for our inner problematic views. I’m say g this is not the battle to take up. Let WotC do whatever they like, but I am disinterested in following their corporate and self-serving lead.

[Void]

[Nota bene: This should probably go in the suggestions, but that's locked as of now and I feel this' rather a hot topic because anything affecting WotC is sooner than later going to trickle down into the larger hobby.]

(opinion)

This probably shoudln't be done, as the server is 3.5 based, and not 5.0, and whatever WotC is trying to do has nothing to do with arelith.

Trying to play diversity card is likely a very bad idea anyway.

[Drowboy]

wotc is doing what they're doing in these regards in order to distract from mike mearls doxxing people, the MTG narrative lead being an absolute freak, their work environment being known in the ttrpg space for being extremely hostile, and, not to put too fine a point on it, alter the mechanics of the game sufficiently to sell you the base rules multiple times.

(with the added benefit of letting a certain breed of tabletop grognard blame everything they don't like about 5E on the horrible dyed-hair-pronoun-people 'ruining dnd' instead of holding wotc responsible for anything). It has nothing to do with 'caring' about anything, nor being actual representation. WOTC is a corporation its entire point is to generate money and cover its Snuggybear.

everyone who actually cared about representation of anything in a tabletop space moved on to other games that aren't supporting tabletop disney a long time ago.

All that said, regardless of what the origin of stuff like this is, if you want a better represented half-orc just like, do it. We don't need word from on high, we don't need a second '5E snowflakes are trying to ruin my game and I am this close to spouting slurs' thread, etc.

[Red Ropes]

[Scurvy Cur]

Just because WotC has taken a one way trip to clown world doesn't mean that we should join them.

[garrbear758]

If you think orcs are based off of any real life ethnicity or culture, YOU are probably the racism problem here.

[deserk]

Faerun like the real world has both tolerance and racism in it's setting. Orcs are not liked much at all in the North or the Moonsea for example, but in places like Amn, Calimshan, Chessenta and Thesk they have a much more open-minded views on them because they have not had as antagonistic a place in their history as in those the northern lands. In fact in Thesk, they have served as defenders of the local communities against the aggressions of the Tuigan horde, and therefore are regarded fairly positively.

And this is all based on 3.5 lore btw.

But quite honestly, the comparisons some people make of orcs, goblins, drow, etc. representing RW human people is something I personally find abhorrent, and extremely disingenuous, because the supposed "anti-racists" are assuming to know perfectly (in other words they seem to be able to mind-read) how a hypothetical racist thinks and how they might misuse a few fantasy races.

[Nekonecro]

This is a fantasy game.
Stop being silly.

[Nitro]

If you think orcs are based off of any real life ethnicity or culture, YOU are probably the racism problem here.

This is the truth of the matter.

[Security_Blanket]

This is the story of Arelith, Wizards of the Coast should not have any impact whatsoever. And as was said, this is not 5th Edition. This is not the place for you to achieve "social justice."

[Party in the forest at midnight]

People claiming orcs are representations of Africans are insanely racist. I have never seen a person ever RP a half-orc as being any sort of African or African-American. The "noble savage" trope can exist without it reflecting on real life. If you want to talk about actual projections of noble savages that reflect onto the real world, it's usually from indigenous cultures of the Americas. But nobody ever talks about that for some reason. And the way it's portrayed in-game is about as problematic as the monk class, which is to say it's very rarely a problem. Recently I saw someone basically RPing a WoW troll and it was REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE, but I can count things like that on one hand.

[Kuma]

with regards to US-American racial stereotyping traditions

the world consists of more than america, contrary to USian belief

[garrbear758]

If you want to have a serious conversation and actually do something productive, here are three links that will help support the fight against institutional racism and mass incarceration in the US. I guarantee a single dollar to any of these will be more productive than any ridiculous conversation about fake fantasy races.

NAACP: https://naacp.org/donate

The Bail Project: https://bailproject.org/?form=donate

168 more options: https://nymag.com/strategist/article/wh ... atter.html

[Void]

People claiming orcs are representations of Africans

... wait, such people exist?

[The GrumpyCat]

The Short: Arelith is based on 3rd ed forgotten realms, and whilst I am intersted and even somewhat support some of the changes WotC are making, to accomodate such changes would require absolutly massive shifts in our own setting and playability, so it won't be happening any time soon. Forgotten Realms is... very problematic in some areas, especially 3rd ed forgotten realms. But it's what we have, so we may as well stick to it.

I appreciate the thought here. And if the OP wants to engage with me personnaly in this they are welcome to. These arn't concerns I want to supress because this sort of thing is important. But I don't think that an open topic on it will get us far.

[DM Monkey]

Orcs are monsters in Arelith. Don't read too much more into it than that.