Sorcerer questions help needed

[Neyha Riverdale]

hello everyone!

I'm currently playing a sorc (lvl9), I have GSF conjuration and GSF abjuration as feats but soon enough I have to decide if I wanna take another GSF school or just the meta magic feats (extended spell, max spell etc). Unfortunately I cannot have 3th GSF and all 3 metamegic feats so I have to decide which one to drop.

what should I do? and if I have to select another school to focus wich one you suggest?

thanks

[Aelryn Bloodmoon]

If you're playing a sorcerer that regularly uses any kind of damaging spell or effect, you absolutely want at least empower or maximize, if not both (certain spell levels lack certain elemental damage spells, and having both can allow you to use the right element for the right dungeon- empowered ice storms instead of chain lightnings, for example, on ice monsters).

If you're a summon/buff/debuff/control machine, you can get by with just extend, out of the 3.

You absolutely want quicken, for both setups, unless you have haste on tap and never plan to take autoquicken.

[Talvenlapsi]

I'm currently playing sorcerer with 3 GSF's and Empower + Extend spell. When you have 11 casts of haste and mass haste (if you pick that one up) extended, it's fine. Unless you do the whole autoquicken build. I went for no autoquicken/quicken, no armor/ac/discipline build, with more spells and ESF's.

[Skarain]

Well, you get 7 feats pre-epic, 4 epic feats and sorcerer bonus feats at 23, 26 and 29. One more if you are a human. You can also dip Ranger and get the same amount of feats.

So yes. If you are not going for Divine Sorcerer, Armor wielder shenanigans, you can fit 3 ESF.

[Neyha Riverdale]

Well, you get 7 feats pre-epic, 4 epic feats and sorcerer bonus feats at 23, 26 and 29. One more if you are a human. You can also dip Ranger and get the same amount of feats.

So yes. If you are not going for Divine Sorcerer, Armor wielder shenanigans, you can fit 3 ESF.

thx all for the replays,
too bad I'm into those shenanigans so:

Div/sorc human

6 feats
GSF Abj/conjuration/(another school)
power attack
extended duration

OR drop the 3th school and pick up all meta magic feats

for epic:

2 or 3 feats on GSF to ESF
epic mage armor
divine shield
planar conduit

is dropping a school worth it for the extra meta magic feats? What are the drawbacks?

[Skarain]

If you are going for Divine Sorc, I think you're better off with just 2x GSF/ESF rows. If you double down to a niche, the double down on it hard.

As human, your 8 pre-epic feats could be "Extend, Empower, Maximize, SF&GSF conju, SF&GSF Abjur, Power Attack", and in Epics to have "ESF Abjur, ESF Conju, Epic Mage Armor, Planar Conduit, Armor Skin and... Epic Skill Focus: Discipline"

Could also go Autostill route and use Heavy Armor, but I think if you want to fit Planar Conduit, you'll be better with the one above.

Sorcerer has a limited amount of spell selection per spell tier. Your 3rd Spell Focus will compete with other Conjuration and Abjuration based spells and you can not have them all. Unless you need your 3rd spell focus for a specific niche, that is.

The primary reason for both Empowered and Maximized is spell slot juggling. There is a limited number of really good spells, such as Isarca Greater Missile storm. By having both metamagic, you can cast the strongest spells that arent reliant on a save multiple times, or to blanket a field with hundreds of Walls of Fire, or target a specific save you know the enemy is weak against.

Since Sorcerer is a Spontaneous caster, Metamagic actually gives you more versatility than say to a Wizard. If you decide it is time to spend all of your spell slots to buff, you can burn all your 2nd level spells to cast buffs, Extend them to do it more, and Empower to even more. Or you can cast 26x IGMS, each dealing 80-120 damage per cast, with one cast every 3 seconds, potentially 26x times in a row, utterly devastating another who is not properly prepared. Or to use Daldrims Fiery Tentacles and make a field of fiery wriggling doom.

That being said, what matters the most is that you enjoy your build. If you'd rather build for 3x Spell Focus, you can drop some meta magic or your entire armor capacity in flavour of other benefits. Empowered is more fun to use than Maximized.

I play a Sorc/Ranger with 3x ESF, no armor or discipline, but a lot of skill points and epic skill focuses in both hide and spot. They will hands down loose to a PvP built Sorcerer, no question about that, but they have all the skills to be a successful tracker, bounty hunter and a spy - and I can always bring along a friend to shore up my weaknesses if I expect violence.

I also know another Sorcerer who built entirely for Faction Support. 30 Sorcerer, only Extended, everything else in Spell Focuses - to gain more of the Epic Spell Focus cookies that Arelith gives, from Teleport to Yoink to Scry and so-on.

[Neyha Riverdale]

If you are going for Divine Sorc, I think you're better off with just 2x GSF/ESF rows. If you double down to a niche, the double down on it hard.

As human, your 8 pre-epic feats could be "Extend, Empower, Maximize, SF&GSF conju, SF&GSF Abjur, Power Attack", and in Epics to have "ESF Abjur, ESF Conju, Epic Mage Armor, Planar Conduit, Armor Skin and... Epic Skill Focus: Discipline"

Could also go Autostill route and use Heavy Armor, but I think if you want to fit Planar Conduit, you'll be better with the one above.

Sorcerer has a limited amount of spell selection per spell tier. Your 3rd Spell Focus will compete with other Conjuration and Abjuration based spells and you can not have them all. Unless you need your 3rd spell focus for a specific niche, that is.

The primary reason for both Empowered and Maximized is spell slot juggling. There is a limited number of really good spells, such as Isarca Greater Missile storm. By having both metamagic, you can cast the strongest spells that arent reliant on a save multiple times, or to blanket a field with hundreds of Walls of Fire, or target a specific save you know the enemy is weak against.

Since Sorcerer is a Spontaneous caster, Metamagic actually gives you more versatility than say to a Wizard. If you decide it is time to spend all of your spell slots to buff, you can burn all your 2nd level spells to cast buffs, Extend them to do it more, and Empower to even more. Or you can cast 26x IGMS, each dealing 80-120 damage per cast, with one cast every 3 seconds, potentially 26x times in a row, utterly devastating another who is not properly prepared. Or to use Daldrims Fiery Tentacles and make a field of fiery wriggling doom.

That being said, what matters the most is that you enjoy your build. If you'd rather build for 3x Spell Focus, you can drop some meta magic or your entire armor capacity in flavour of other benefits. Empowered is more fun to use than Maximized.

I play a Sorc/Ranger with 3x ESF, no armor or discipline, but a lot of skill points and epic skill focuses in both hide and spot. They will hands down loose to a PvP built Sorcerer, no question about that, but they have all the skills to be a successful tracker, bounty hunter and a spy - and I can always bring along a friend to shore up my weaknesses if I expect violence.

I also know another Sorcerer who built entirely for Faction Support. 30 Sorcerer, only Extended, everything else in Spell Focuses - to gain more of the Epic Spell Focus cookies that Arelith gives, from Teleport to Yoink to Scry and so-on.

wow! thanks! that are a lot of useful infos, i think I will take the route you suggested (metamagic feats) to be more flexible with my spells, I saw that just taking extended improved my experience.

The only problem is I dont know wich spell are "must have" I mean haste, barrier, inv, detect inv etc are pretty obvious but I tried tentacles and died to my own spell lol

can you suggest me what spells are good for leveling purpose? right now I just use every buff on the summon and let it do the heavy lifting while I assist with a ranged weapon (and with "assist" I mean I sit there missing every single hit thanks to my stunning agility of 8 and mighty sorc AA bonus)

[Skarain]

First off, right-click an empty hotbar slot. Radical left > Sorcerer > . You should find somewhere there "Infinicasting spells". Essentially, if you get a Greater Spell Focus as a Wizard or Sorcerer, you unlock a low-level spell you can spam to infinity. For Conjuration it is Melf's Acid Arrow. I suggest you use that instead of trying to plink with ranged attacks.

It tends to bug out every time you level, so you'll have to drag a new copy of the Infinispell to your hotbars at every levelup.

Regarding spells during leveling, Summons are king, as you've no doubt noticed. Anything and everything you can find that will buff your summons or fellow party members is primary.

Beyond that, you will want to select spells that have a persistent AoE effect. Let's say that you come across a pack of... 6x enemies on a high ledge which your summons can't reach. If you keep throwing Fireball (a single time kaboom), you'll quickly run out of spell slots. However, spells like Tentacles deal a lot of damage over a long period of time. That's why it's useful to have one such: To kill ledge-enemies.

Some Fire or Acid that doesn't invoke Friendly Fire is also helpful to have (such as Firebrand) to deal with Trolls and other regenerating creatures.