Grievances About Slavery Thread

[Definately Not A Mimic]

The last slave I played was a commoner. The owner I settled on, as there were several that showed interest, agreed to the limits I wanted set on my slave. Limited coin being one. Anything over a set amount was transferred to the owner's account. Obviously this couldn't be enforced but if I'm playing a slave I personally didn't want to be a millionaire. It seems silly otherwise. I love the ideas for the changes and more restrictions on someone who is supposed to be suppressed.

The only idea I don't like is the class restriction. I love playing commoners, I've lvled 2 to 30 fairly easily and plan at least another in the future. However, slaves that can guard their owner absolutely make sense and it seems like it shouldn't be something not able to play. Yes, commoners can be actually fairly viable in fighting but not the greatest guard for epic characters. I'm sure arguments can be made for other classes as well. Hope this change gets re-thought even if it means more limits set on them.

[legionetrangere]

The only idea I don't like is the class restriction. I love playing commoners, I've lvled 2 to 30 fairly easily and plan at least another in the future. However, slaves that can guard their owner absolutely make sense and it seems like it shouldn't be something not able to play. Yes, commoners can be actually fairly viable in fighting but not the greatest guard for epic characters. I'm sure arguments can be made for other classes as well. Hope this change gets re-thought even if it means more limits set on them.

I beg to differ here. The restriction is only at character creation, not overall. You'll still be able to find regular classes toons as slaves, but they'll require RP as to how and why they got themselves with a slave collar in the first place.
One could probably make an argument why the commoner slave population should be the majority, since we'll, they are commoners. This change is a good step towards that direction IMHO.

[Altair01]

Limiting the number of contracts slaves can take at once is a good idea, as is the +4 ECL, and it would make sense thematically for slaves to be restricted to using Underdark portals.

It seems as if the problem with slaves being more powerful than their masters should be resolved IC. Rather than capping slaves at level 26, you could allow the slaves' owners to perform a long-lasting, non-removable level-drain-like effect on their slaves, reverting it whenever they chose. This would be very effective as punishment.

[Edens_Fall]

Something to clarity's sake, in the near future, after various other projects are settled - there will be some adjustments to the slavery system based on some of the valid criticism of it in the thread as well as trying to make it less of a "fun time" from an IC perspective. It will have more logic to it and a lot more nuance.

• Less OOC indicators - you will need to actually RP to find out who owns them. They will simply be owned / unowned.

• Slave calling will not be as reliable due to the nature in DnD of an unwilling teleportation target needing a saving throw.

• Slave calling will have cooldowns.

• Slaving calling will be a feature available only to a master so that slave catching RP can be valid.

• PC-class slavery will no longer be available from the start except for commoners.

• Active slavery shall have restrictions to both writs, disabling of all features involving guilds like the Radiant Heart, Piracy, etc.

• Portals and UD based slaves are being evaluated for ways to disrupt "tourism" slavery / writgaming.

• Freedom will be accessed in more narrative ways and masters will be able to provide it directly for a price.

• More system interaction and in game reaction to the system from NPCs - think banking, access to shops, etc.

The whole goal is to updated the age approach of the system, adjust it so people who want to do it narratively but do not like how set in stone / one sided it is will have options, and to overall make it more healthy in the setting.

Love these ideas!

[fulminea]

In my opinion Slavery the way it is now doesnt belong on a pg13 Server .

It makes players reenact the Stanford prison Experiment without any remorse.

The amount of "stunning young female" slaves in the ud unveals how this background is being misused and blatantly uncovers the Agenda of the players behind them.

Personally i am worried about the amount of characters that fall into the "sexy obedient slave girl" category and i wonder if an rpr requirement might help, if not even an application.

[Red Ropes]

Personally i am worried about the amount of characters that fall into the "sexy obedient slave girl" category and i wonder if an rpr requirement might help, if not even an application.

Just report everyone you think is being an sexy elven fun times slave tbh. Don't feel like you're being an annoying Karen for doing so. It's the equivalent of seeing a fire and calling the fire department. You're doing your civil duty.

[Arienette]

I’ve seen many sides of the slavery system and find there are definitely issues with it. Some things that were mentioned like how all slaves are treated with hostility because they know that it’s an OOC consent thing. It’s awful. But equally slaves who basically act like outcasts and Andunorians. Typically people shouldn’t be okay with being collared. There may be rare exceptions but it shouldn’t be like a badge of honour to wear a collar.

But slave RP can also be incredibly deep and meaningful as I’ve experienced. And very rewarding. Many of the issues people seem to have with the system seems to have less to do with the mechanical aspects / system of slavery and more with community stuff. I.e. how people RP being a slave or when they encounter a (ex) slave. Or the weird sexual things people describe. I think it’s more those things that are the issue than the system itself. And those things should be reported and addressed. Slavery RP or not, many things mentioned in this thread shouldn’t be okay in general.

As for an easy start? Hardly. Writs in the UD are way harder than the surface writs. Most slaves get treated like dirt and cattle and get very little help with them. Making a lot of gold? No more than you would starting as an UDer or a Surfacer. I’m not sure what that statement was based on. In fact, for many slaves it’s harder to make gold since I often hear they are required to pay part of their earnings to their owners. As for the portal use? As soon as you’re not a slave anymore you can’t use them. So I don’t see the problem. Andunor doesn’t typically welcome chainbreakers with open arms.

And that’s another point for me. I find the slavery system can generate a ton of meaningful RP. This will likely make me unpopular for this opinion, but chainbreakers are everywhere. There are entire factions and groups set up to help slaves break free and it generates a lot of RP.

I don’t think it’s fair to treat all slaves with hostility. I understand it since so many times slaves have been played as if they’re UDers. I get this. Still there are many who don’t do that. Slaves or no. The same goes for evil characters and just instantly writing them off. Sometimes we may wish to give people a chance to change or go down a new path. Redemption is a thing (not for everyone, granted).

Anyway, long story short. I think perhaps it’s more beneficial to remind everyone around the expectations of the slavery system. Perhaps lock it behind RPR rating or something. But I’m all for keeping it. In a world where torture, imprisonment, cutting peoples limbs off, gore, murder and all that is a thing, I don’t agree that this is out of the ordinary. I by no means support any awkwardness however with slavery RP and it’s a responsibility of players in the community that everyone is comfortable with the scenario they are creating. If someone isn’t okay with something thats happening, we just need to communicate.

Good points overall. But slaves are not treated with hostility IC because player know there is OOC consent.

Slaves are treated with hostility IC because they are often acting in the interest of their evil owner. And/or when characters offer to help free then, the slave character refuses and runs home with an evil cackle.

[Ebonstar]

In my opinion Slavery the way it is now doesnt belong on a pg13 Server .

It makes players reenact the Stanford prison Experiment without any remorse.

The amount of "stunning young female" slaves in the ud unveals how this background is being misused and blatantly uncovers the Agenda of the players behind them.

Personally i am worried about the amount of characters that fall into the "sexy obedient slave girl" category and i wonder if an rpr requirement might help, if not even an application.

seems like the drow females have let it slip for slaves to think they can get away being a sexy chattel. A proper ceremony would fix this in a very simple and drow way. Either by ritual scaring of their "sexy being" making them unsexy, or being chained to the altar and sacrificed to the Queen.

[legionetrangere]

Personally i am worried about the amount of characters that fall into the "sexy obedient slave girl" category and i wonder if an rpr requirement might help, if not even an application.

Just report everyone you think is being an sexy elven fun times slave tbh. Don't feel like you're being an annoying Karen for doing so. It's the equivalent of seeing a fire and calling the fire department. You're doing your civil duty.

But she proposed perhaps fair requirements to the utilization of this sketchy system, a rpr rating / award or even an application. This might help weed out the pyschos

[D4wN]

Good points overall. But slaves are not treated with hostility IC because player know there is OOC consent.

Slaves are treated with hostility IC because they are often acting in the interest of their evil owner. And/or when characters offer to help free then, the slave character refuses and runs home with an evil cackle.

Oh for sure! I'm aware. I perhaps didn't word it well enough. I didn't mean to imply that slaves are badly treated ICly because people know it requires OOC consent. And I know there are many slaves who've proven to be loyal to their owners. But I have experienced some players treating you ICly with the nonchalant.. "If you wanted to be free, you could. It's easy." or the "You chose to be a slave so this is your own fault." Not really taking the woes of the slave ICly seriously because they know it requires OOC consent. And yes, all this has happened. It's the only reason I brought it up.

Definitely do not think people should instantly trust slaves!

you could allow the slaves' owners to perform a long-lasting, non-removable level-drain-like effect on their slaves, reverting it whenever they chose. This would be very effective as punishment.

I think that's actually a really neat idea!

[Morgy]

Perhaps a portion of all gold looted going to their owner's account might be an interesting tool, too. Would make their finances more managed by their owner. Or perhaps all gold over a cap, going to their owner.

[-XXX-]

Oh for sure! I'm aware. I perhaps didn't word it well enough. I didn't mean to imply that slaves are badly treated ICly because people know it requires OOC consent. And I know there are many slaves who've proven to be loyal to their owners. But I have experienced some players treating you ICly with the nonchalant.. "If you wanted to be free, you could. It's easy." or the "You chose to be a slave so this is your own fault." Not really taking the woes of the slave ICly seriously because they know it requires OOC consent. And yes, all this has happened. It's the only reason I brought it up.

TBH, one can expect a certain degree of cynicism coming from characters as a response to the cheapshot "you're so indifferent to my suffering, you must be an evil person" type of emotional blackmail RP once we acknowledge the fact that it's actually coming from someone who

a) is 100% responsible for the current situation, and
b) has all and every means to do something about it

that's blaming someone who

a) is objectively not at fault here, and
b) can do absolutely nothing about it.

Frankly, this can feel kinda trolly at times and I can relate to players who are struggling with an appropriate IC response to that.

[Algol]

Perhaps rather than slavery a sort of caste system could be implemented. We already have nobles and commoners why not add something like serfs to take place of slavery system?

Instead of slave belonging to X it could say a serf tied to Anduor.

[Irongron]

I have spoken with the devs about this, and am very supportive of changes. Having recently removed the system from Sencliff, I would also prefer to see it limited to the Underdark, where it is very much part of the setting.

Regarding the moral dimension, slavery is obviously abhorrent, and especially in the US continues to have a lasting, terrible legacy today, a discussion of which has no place on these forums.

It was, however, very much a feature of the classical world also, and as such is a staple of the fantasy genre which often draws upon such periods as an inspiration, whether one is talking about Game of Thrones, or Conan, it is a near ubiquitous feature.

Whether or not we have any system in place, it will happen, and be role played, especially in the Underdark - indeed one motivation for the system in the first place was to put some controls and limits on something which was endemic to the UD roleplay.

Arelith is a 't' rated server, but rife with violence, warfare, personal trauma and much else, 'sword & sorcery' settings cannot fully erase potentially traumatic themes. There are, of course, many other multiplayer online experiences which can.

[D4wN]

Oh for sure! I'm aware. I perhaps didn't word it well enough. I didn't mean to imply that slaves are badly treated ICly because people know it requires OOC consent. And I know there are many slaves who've proven to be loyal to their owners. But I have experienced some players treating you ICly with the nonchalant.. "If you wanted to be free, you could. It's easy." or the "You chose to be a slave so this is your own fault." Not really taking the woes of the slave ICly seriously because they know it requires OOC consent. And yes, all this has happened. It's the only reason I brought it up.

TBH, one can expect a certain degree of cynicism coming from characters as a response to the cheapshot "you're so indifferent to my suffering, you must be an evil person" type of emotional blackmail RP once we acknowledge the fact that it's actually coming from someone who

a) is 100% responsible for the current situation, and
b) has all and every means to do something about it

that's blaming someone who

a) is objectively not at fault here, and
b) can do absolutely nothing about it.

Frankly, this can feel kinda trolly at times and I can relate to players who are struggling with an appropriate IC response to that.

Definitely agree with your sentiment also. I don't have a solution unfortunately. I don't really judge people who treat slaves with distrust or even a level of hostility. I totally get it!

[xf1313]

Perhaps rather than slavery a sort of caste system could be implemented. We already have nobles and commoners why not add something like serfs to take place of slavery system?

Instead of slave belonging to X it could say a serf tied to Anduor.

This sounds so much better, servants, house guards etc. They can be brought (like a slave, made from creation) or hired from citizens who look for a job. The hired ones has chance to be promoted or end contract, and people has much more reason to speak with servants than slaves.

I have a drow, and I wanted to rp with slaves, but I do not have reason to. It looks bad if I associate with other’s slaves, that is unfun.

And slave-catching is bad, those who do it make it unfun. A friend was killed outside bendir, then he got tell says are u interested in playing in UD, that’s like pvp with no rp at all. He was a new player who has no idea what is going on.