127 Quarter DC Cap

[perseid]

So, before anything I want to acknowledge that some of the behavior I'm going to mention is probably a Be Nice violation. Some of this is also going to be a criticism of the effectiveness with which the rules are enforced but that's not meant as a condemnation of the staff who already work hard (especially for volunteers). That said, while I understand that things like incentivizing reset rushing are a concern I thought overclocking locks was an okayish middleground even if things like the price could have been more fair.

I'm sure for a lot of players it's rarely a problem either way but, having seen a few groups with quarterbreakers at odds with eachother as well as at odds with groups that lacked quarterbreakers, my limited observation of qb spam (whether it involves actual theft or not) is that the spammer and/or their faction is rarely if ever punished (sometimes for practical reasons like fairness towards members of those groups) and if they are then it's never (again this is just my observation) in a timely enough manner for the resolution to actually matter to the victim. So the good that reporting does in the end is debatable as far as the reporter is concerned.

Having the option to overdial locks seemed fair to me since, even if it probably should have been more expensive, for some homes and guildhouses being quarterbroken and then repairing your locks can cost over 200k by itself (obviously we could also be talking about if the locks should break at all). Another reason it was nice is that, and I realize this is just my personal opinion, I don't think it's very interesting rp for a faction or hostile individual to be able to just roll without restraint on enemy characters at all times repeatedly even in a staggered fashion to abide Be Nice. Further, since there's no mechanical limit on how often the same quarterbreaker can be used to enter somewhere it creates a paradigm where once you have a qb the target has no real option for mechanical counterplay anymore besides surrendering to demands (this is before even addressing the informational value of clues, as described in the updated rules, being close to nil since you could already check your dcs to verify).

The issue of counterplay goes beyond just concerns about factions. An individual qb might not be able to fight well but that rarely matters since they can simply time their particular break-ins to the target's offline hours. Again, I realize some of this is governed by Be Nice but I've never seen that to matter in time for the victim and it does little to prevent the same patterns from emerging through different individuals in the future.

And so, I think at the very least a more costly mechanical option for especially concerned characters would be a good thing. I realize there have recently been some changes to quarterbreaking rules but in my opinion the context of those changes reinforces my point in that for even those changes to occur the issue had to become so frequent and common that there was widespread discontent.

Finally, if overclocking locks/traps is to stay removed I think there should at least be some sort of new counterplay mechanic added in its place so that victims of overly aggressive qbing can at least do something besides sit on their hands when being qbed to a rulebreaking degree. At minimum, I think that if things are going to stay like this then either the cost of repairing locks (or the need to do so) in the aftermath of being quarterbroken should be re-evaluated or there should be a mechanical timer that imposes a limit on how often the same qb can break into a quarter.

[ReverentBlade]

Doors should check the online status of the owner and should only be bash/pickable if the result is true.

[Morgy]

QB is one of the few mechanics which can consistently target and heavily impact a PC, that isn’t even online to respond. There is usually no RP of merit in this. For this reason I have never been a fan of it.

If there were more consequences for attempts - perhaps magical alarms going off with a ‘shout’ function, it might generate more risk and interaction from neighbours/guards etc.

I have no issue with breaking into quarters for assassinations/capture, but being able to loot someone’s things without interaction seems to defy the spirit of most of the games rules.

Being able to temporarily boost over 127dc for certain periods or increased costs might be a solution also.

[godhand-]

"Will now use a progress bar as per normal NWN functionality instead of instant. This shall disable the ability to spam check a door's DC."

Whilst this may not seem like much - this basically forces a 5+ second delay between every attempt at hitting a door, whether it be for a trap or for a lock....
given you could pretty much hit a door 10-20 times a second previously, this equates to possibly a fifty fold (or more) increase in the time it takes to actually break into a quarter....

A maxed trap/lock DC could take over to an hour to get into with these changes...... I think this offsets the inability to overclock traps.

[MRFTW]

I was sad that the bard update didn't make the solo QB build impossible.

[ReverentBlade]

Does the progress bar mean that Take 20 applies?

[Sincra]

Does the progress bar mean that Take 20 applies?

No.

I have my plans to further provide rp avenues.
Soon (TM)

[Skarain]

I was sad that the bard update didn't make the solo QB build impossible.

Hilariously, the bard update is what enabled QB to become widespread. Before changes to bard and to writs, it was absolutely obnoxious to level a QB bard, let alone any QB. Over a year ago I was part of a Thieves Guild faction and I recall how salty we were that the only competent thief was a Bard. High disguise, immunity to scry via specific song, highest easily achivable skill in thievery, free invis and haste for speed. Playing a Rogue was such a handicap compared to Bard/LM, if theft RP was your primary interest. Rogue's "Skill Mastery" also doesn't do shit for locks and pickpocketing.

[godhand-]

Hilariously, the bard update is what enabled QB to become widespread. Before changes to bard and to writs, it was absolutely obnoxious to level a QB bard, let alone any QB.

Don't forget writs

But - Making a QB is now easier than ever, especially with the recent bard changes - however, it's worth noting the act of qb'ing is more tediously time consuming for little to almost no reward with the recent one item/day changes.

even for rp/spying/information gathering a maxxed lock/traop combo is looking at over an hour of your time before lag is considered in the equation.

Easy to make a QB build, but mindboggling boring to play.

[AstralUniverse]

I was sad that the bard update didn't make the solo QB build impossible.

Hilariously, the bard update is what enabled QB to become widespread. Before changes to bard and to writs, it was absolutely obnoxious to level a QB bard, let alone any QB. Over a year ago I was part of a Thieves Guild faction and I recall how salty we were that the only competent thief was a Bard. High disguise, immunity to scry via specific song, highest easily achivable skill in thievery, free invis and haste for speed. Playing a Rogue was such a handicap compared to Bard/LM, if theft RP was your primary interest. Rogue's "Skill Mastery" also doesn't do shit for locks and pickpocketing.

Good point. Solo QB builds are terrible, TERRIBLE in combat... but less and less over time with how damn good bard class has become for support/spy niche. Now with summons for solo leveling too. This cant be good lol. You dont have to be that terrible in combat anymore also. You can dip swash early, loremaster late, be a functional support melee caster and... Solo QB. :/

[ElvenEdibles]

If we're going to straight up just make quarter-breaking easier I too think some further counterplay would be awesome. Being able to build 'peristent traps' via semi expensive fixtures that you can lay down in your quarters, or a handful of loud and noisy 'guard pets' you can put into your quarters (or just certain larger quarters even), or spells or an eyeball that 'record' whoever passes into your room or at least gives you -investigate worthy information.

[msheeler]

The goal of this and any upcoming changes to QB are two fold:

1. To encourage more RP / interaction between the QB'er and the target
2. To make this less binary (ie. you never get in or always get in).

[Hazard]

A little off-topic but barely. I have a question for the experienced QB'ers.
How come breaking in with STR seems easier and more common than lockpicking? They both have the same cap, right? And max STR chars have like 40-44 str. Some forms can get more, but I don't think anything reaches over 80, let alone 127. What's the deal with people not increasing their lock strength, or is that not the issue and is 'bashing' calculated differently?

[msheeler]

I'd imagine that is because STR is useful in many more ways than 33 open locks, 33 disable traps and two feats in those.

I mean the STR also gives you AB and damage which are useful.