Earthkin Defender: feedback.

[Sincra]

I'm confused how anyone thinks this class is feat starved as a fighter.

You can very easily do 10/16/4 fighter/ekd/dip.
You can also do 10/15/5 same as above except you take loremaster.

11/16/3 swash/ekd/dip for the Luck of heroes.

It has a plethora of variants of which fighter is not what I would consider to be struggling for feats, unless you are making it the dip at which point of course it has less, that's the price for not taking more levels.

On AC vs DI as per Archnon.
It doesn't get DI, it gets DR.
If safeguard DI is what you mean please focus on that and not trying to adjust the class as a whole.

On EDR, it's only as non-optional as you make it.

On move speed, you can just... turn off the stance?
I'm not sure why it is an insisted PvP mechanism but it is toggleable with a CD so you need to make a choice.
If someone is face tanking you, by all means sit in the stance, but if you think you should be able to chase someone while in stance, I'm sorry but that's not changing.
EKD used to be unable to move in stance, don't forget.

As for

With this approach we can call any build as "path". For me, at moment i see only few useful feats.

Yes and no. We have named builds that are THE defacto way a combo was done, but also, not every class gets to choose it's progression ontop of normal feats.
Where this happens most often is, go figure, paths and EKD, otherwise it's static or shared "common" feats.
I agree on some of the abilities not being as useful as others, that can be remedied, but I'd encourage this thread to refocus on those abilities and stop trying to add new mechanics.

For example, if it lacks offensive power, what can be done to an existing feat that is underpowered to help this? Would that make it the goto choice or would it now be a tossup?
Was it purely the duration that was an issue?


As Skibbles noted, EKD does what it was made for very well, but I also recognise it has room for growth.

My final note:
All things must have a cost, otherwise we end up with god builds. Try not to focus too hard on the negative cost without seeing the positive.

If other classes have no obvious cost, don't make a quip back at me, you are instead free to make a thread asking where it is, I'm sure someone will point it out.

[jomonog]

Having played a couple I think the main drawback with EKD in PVP is the cooldown on re-activating stance after you leave it. If you face anyone savvy they will move away from you when youre in stance and pretty much ignore you until you come to them so youre constantly being forced out of stance to chase down people and then have to deal with a significant amount of time where you just dont have the stance benefits on. If either the cooldown was lowered or stance was instant on/off on activation then it would make the class much more PVP viable.

[Jencent]

On move speed, you can just... turn off the stance?

And you will lose all your goodies for 30 sec. 30 sec it's a lot in terms of PvP.

In theory we can talk a lot, but problem is: Paladins don't have such disadvantages, but their build have a lot more power in game than ekd builds. Same for any other class what i know.

PM or any other summonet will not lose summons if they not WoFed or died.

Paldisn don't lose Holly Sword or Might/shield if he not run out of duration.

Mage will not lose spell only if he run out of.

Bard will not lose his songs if he got attacked or even died? (I mean party members still will have effect of the song?)

Only archer (if i rememver it right) have simmilar things like ekd have. But even archer losed MS penalty because range class cannot kite without MS.

Same with ekd. Almost every one can kite you in your stance. And if you turns off your stance - you become just a figher+/-.

Whole problem in conception of the stance. 4AC/2ab/4save is not THAT good for MS penalty.

[miesny_jez]

Over a year ago (after current ekd rework) there was a feedback thread that has pointed out literally the same issues.
For reference: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31153

Those points raised one year ago as well as now are still completely valid. While the current ekd is better then it was in its original form, its design as a static/slow mover is nonsensical in a multiplayer environment.
Most of the chosable feats are either not impactful/outright not working or have poor scaling.

So yes while in defense the EKD is strong due to inbuilt regen/Dr it honestly doesn't matter anymore because nobody needs a tank for anything in current Arelith!

The damage on the server which classes can output is so high that you don't need a slow tank/defender actually for anything and you will more or less feel like a dead weight when playing your own ekd.

Why do you need a party defender if you have characters that do 70dmg per hit or 300 on crit?
Why do you even need a party/interaction if you can literally solo through everything by yourself these days.

The EKD feels now as a relic of the past, from times you actually needed/wanted a party for adventuring. It's nice to have in a party yes, but another barbarian/wm/spellsword etc would be far much better and allowed you to kill everything faster.


Edit:
A hint to my fellow ekd fans:
You can Gonne in stance!

[miesny_jez]

The whole idea of defender = unmovable slow brick is such an antiquited concept it puzzles me that anyone can try to defend this.

If you are a defensive unit- You need to be able to react to the change on the battlefield!

[Dreams]

Are you telling me ‘Nae running’ has been a ridiculous meme for so long just because you guys were upset at not being able to move fast as this supercharged class?

[Jencent]

Over a year ago (after current ekd rework) there was a feedback thread that has pointed out literally the same issues.
For reference: viewtopic.php?f=37&t=31153

Those points raised one year ago as well as now are still completely valid. While the current ekd is better then it was in its original form, its design as a static/slow mover is nonsensical in a multiplayer environment.
Most of the chosable feats are either not impactful/outright not working or have poor scaling.

So yes while in defense the EKD is strong due to inbuilt regen/Dr it honestly doesn't matter anymore because nobody needs a tank for anything in current Arelith!

The damage on the server which classes can output is so high that you don't need a slow tank/defender actually for anything and you will more or less feel like a dead weight when playing your own ekd.

Why do you need a party defender if you have characters that do 70dmg per hit or 300 on crit?
Why do you even need a party/interaction if you can literally solo through everything by yourself these days.

The EKD feels now as a relic of the past, from times you actually needed/wanted a party for adventuring. It's nice to have in a party yes, but another barbarian/wm/spellsword etc would be far much better and allowed you to kill everything faster.


Edit:
A hint to my fellow ekd fans:
You can Gonne in stance!

Huh. Looks like not only i think EKD atm are outsider?

[Good Character]

A necro but didn't want to make a 3rd feedback thread for a single concern.

Banner does not feel good in PvP. It is:
1. Stationary, and
2. Costs a full action.

The stationary aspect is honestly fine, but where it becomes problematic is that it's telegraphed because it costs a full action. Another issue is its cooldown is lengthy for a stationary buff. Your enemy can simply run away the moment they see you casting, or run away once they see it placed.

Two possible solutions:
1. Make it an instant action. The banner can already be destroyed or avoided by running from its aura, and/or
2. Either shorten its cooldown and duration by half, or give Banner 3 a lower cooldown.