Hemomancer- Necro vs Evo SF and RP

[Adrianmostfun]

I'd like to try to start a discussion on the identity of Hemomancer and the disparity between Necro/Evo focus.

Despite hemo's necro focus and theme (blood magic/life essence/soul) it feels like this is the weaker part of his overall kit despite being his main theme and having access to many necro spells.


1. RP Perspective: The blood magic theme in hemo is very cool and I love what the devs did by making it open to interpretation on whether it's truly evil or if there's more nuance to how it can be used. I think my problem with hemo rp wise is that the balancing of the hemo and necro spells dissuades you from going a full evil necro rp build because it just worse version of the evo variation.

2. Mechanic Perspective: From a mechanics perspective I feel like Necro focus is just bad. Saves being so high invalidate most of this spell list even without nep,dw. Choosing Necro focus and potentially losing out on gruin and hball feels awful and with little upside in comparison to evo which seems to be strictly superior. Some feedback I think could useful is making the necro portion of the kit have more influence so players have more incentive to go that route.


I made this post to try and drum up some discussion about Hemomancer because I don't see a lot of discussion on it. Hopefully this is useful to someone.

[DeepWebAssassin]

So I'm playing one in mid-epics right now and I'm actually really, really glad this isn't another class heavily pushed toward taking the necro line to enjoy its core features and RP flavor. We already have Pale Master, Undying Warlock, and various other things that have synergy with pale master, undead, or the necromancy line and it is nice that I have some choice here. Both Invoker sub-classes feel like they focus on being an offensive spellcaster that has the ability to sustain offensive pressure for longer at the cost of some utility and defensive options that other casters get. Somewhere between the unlimited blaster warlock and a traditional arcane caster. Considering their job is to sit there and sling offensive magic, evocation scaling for the class abilities seems on-brand for them.

The issue here is that necromancy will never compete in PvP with the two epic spells that serve as some of the only reliable burst damage available to spellcasters. No matter what you make Necromancy do for the class, the evo combo line still represents the ability to (try to) kill people. In my opinion, necro should not try to compete with evocation for the same niche and just specialize more heavily in another direction like PvE.

In terms of proposed buffs toward that end -- maybe it could get some of the create undead spells? I'm hesitant to suggest any summons because it really seems like the whole point of Invoker is not to rely on them like other casters but they DO get the planar binding line so maybe a few mid-grade skelly boys for the necro crowd wouldn't be too crazy. I think summons as a whole are in a heavy state of uncertainty right now so its hard to really say how useful they'd even be.

[Adrianmostfun]

So I'm playing one in mid-epics right now and I'm actually really, really glad this isn't another class heavily pushed toward taking the necro line to enjoy its core features and RP flavor. We already have Pale Master, Undying Warlock, and various other things that have synergy with pale master, undead, or the necromancy line and it is nice that I have some choice here. Both Invoker sub-classes feel like they focus on being an offensive spellcaster that has the ability to sustain offensive pressure for longer at the cost of some utility and defensive options that other casters get. Somewhere between the unlimited blaster warlock and a traditional arcane caster. Considering their job is to sit there and sling offensive magic, evocation scaling for the class abilities seems on-brand for them.

I can understand the perspective with not wanting it to turn into just another necromancy spell-caster. Having the choice between scaling with evo or necro is really cool and I hope that stays. My problem with the necro focus is that it's just inferior currently at least in my opinion. If you're picking necro focus you're just gimping yourself. The evo focus is just better, making the necro focus in my opinion pointless it has to have some merit to being used.

I can understand the point about it not competing with pvp, but currently I don't think it's competing with evo focus in anything it's just a worse pick. That's what I don't like about necro focus currently I feel it's just a trap essentially.

In terms of proposed buffs toward that end -- maybe it could get some of the create undead spells? I'm hesitant to suggest any summons because it really seems like the whole point of Invoker is not to rely on them like other casters but they DO get the planar binding line so maybe a few mid-grade skelly boys for the necro crowd wouldn't be too crazy. I think summons as a whole are in a heavy state of uncertainty right now so its hard to really say how useful they'd even be.

I'm completely in agreement with you here, and understand hesitation to add summons Hemo and Ele should be blaster classes! I'm actually against adding summons in general and would rather necro be a blaster necro kinda thing. I kinda like the idea of necro and evo being just different styles of blasting!

Thank you for the feedback btw I like seeing different perspectives.

[Ping14]

It screams of Blood Mage to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2jQyoN5cdo

[xf1313]

I plan to try the hemomancer in future, currently the spell list is not ‘bloody’ enough for me yet. One hand it gives people other rp options, the other is that this class can allow a bit more room into life magics. Not just necromancy, magic that plays with life force and blood. (I have an image of vampire sourcer in my head now)

[malcolm_mountainslayer]

So this was originaly just going to be only evo scaling class for signature spells/abilities and I (and maybe others) brought up that playing with blood wasnt really evocation at all but was very necro (especialy soul shriek).

necro foci as an option was added for those who wanted to pursue that, be evocation was the original design for mechanical purposes. One can choose to lean into the necro side if they wish regardless if it is mechanically as good as taking the evo focuses and still have their signature abilities scale off of it.

I really appreciate the necro focus option because for me it's finally a class that tap into the non undead side of necromancy (soul-body magic)

[Scylon]

Class needs a few blood themed unique spells available only to it. Might spice it up.